2 - Working With Your Shadow to Overcome Emotional Trauma with Nicole Sheppard

In this episode Nicole Sheppard  shares her experiences of childhood trauma and the effects that had on her into her late twenties, people pleasing and not living the life she wanted to live. Nicole shares the therapy and coaching she received to access her own shadow-self and overcome her ego's programming to be where she is today, living the life of her dreams and helping others who are stuck in their life to achieve their dreams.

Contents:

2:55

Nicole's background

19:44

Why our behaviours are there to keep us safe

26:33

What is The Shadow?

29:13

What are the benefits of working with your shadow?

38:07

The Coaching Techniques that Nicole uses

46:52

If You Don't Have a Dream

54:03

What is The Ego?

57:10

How Do You Get Started with this Kind of Work?

1:03:14

How Long Does Shadow Work Take to be Effective?

Working with Lunar Awakening

Nicole is offering a complimentary 1-hour Dream Workshop (https://go.oncehub.com/RadicalHealthRebelOffer) to Radical Health Rebel listeners and viewers with a 20% discount if you enrol on Nicole's Signature Coaching Package.

You find Nicole @:
www.lunarawakening.com
https://www.instagram.com/lunar.awakening/
https://www.facebook.com/LunarAwakening

You can find Leigh @:
www.bodychek.co.uk
www.skinwebinar.com
www.patreon.com/radicalhealthrebel

Transcript

[00:00] Nicole: So it wasn't until I'm happy to be transparent about this. During that whole time, from my early twenty s to my mid to late 20s, I'd taken several overdoses and I was in so much, much pain and I couldn't recognize the pain that I was in. It's like if someone goes to a battlefield, like a soldier, and they experience war, they know that they've experienced war. But when you've come from an experience of childhood abuse or trauma that's sort of more societal based, people just accept it and say it's a normal part of life. So what happened with me is I didn't have that awareness of the longer term, deeper impact it has had.

[00:49] : Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast with your host, Leigh Brandon. If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a five star rating and the warm review. Your opinions are important, and your ratings help grow the podcast and help educate people to lead a healthier, more productive, fulfilling and happy life. This video is your thing. Please check out the Radical Health Rebel YouTube channel where you'll find fun bite sized clips from each episode. And now, here is Lee, the Radical Health Rebel with this week's podcast.

[01:29] Leigh: OK, Nicole Shepherd. Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast.

[01:33] Nicole: Thanks so much for having me on board today.

[01:35] Leigh: My pleasure, my pleasure. So today's episode is entitled working with Your Shadow to Heal Your Emotional Trauma. Now, emotional trauma is a subject that I feel affects almost every human being today, both in so called developed countries as well as in developing countries. We see addictions, especially substance abuse, as a way that people try to deal with the emotional trauma by numbing their emotional pain. And the approach at best only temporarily reduces the symptoms and causes even more problems for the person, which often spirals out of control. But emotional trauma shows itself in many ways. And I've seen professionally emotional trauma often showing up as physical pain. And without healing the emotional trauma, no massage technique, no joint manipulation, no corrective exercise is going to get the job done. So I'm really excited to be having this conversation today. Nicole, what I'd like you to do is to kick off and tell us about you, your upbringing, your journey, and your experiences that led you to where you are today, right now, talking to me on the Radical Health Rebel podcast.

[02:54] Nicole: Yes. Thank you so much. Gosh. Where do I start? I always take it right back to my A levels, actually, which sounds like a long time ago now. I studied psychology, as you know. It was interesting to me, the human minds, why we behave the way we do. So I started that and I got good grades and I took that bit further, went on to university and did social work. And it was in my social work degree that you spoke there, just of the trauma that we experience in our lives. And it doesn't matter what your background is, we're all at risk of that. And my social work degree, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what you look at, it really uncovered how much trauma I had already experienced. At the tender age of 18. There was a lot of physical abuse, domestic violence that I'd witnessed. I hate to say it, but sexual abuse, inappropriate sexual conversations and situations I was put in at a very young age. And yeah, then as I got older, I couldn't pursue social work as a career because it was just too close to home. And that's when I thought, I need to get some help. And it was in my early twenty s, I pursued things like CBT, all the classic things. CBT?

[04:18] Leigh: Can you explain what that is? For people that don't know what that.

[04:20] Nicole: Is, cognitive behavioral therapy is like the extended term and it's what the NH use is their sort of entry level resolution to mental health problems and people that are displaying problematic behavior. And the idea is that you can think your way to a better behavior strategy. So some of the techniques they told me about was like grounding yourself in the room, focusing on three objects, naming them in terms of what they look like, the shape of them, the color, and it's meant to help bring you back into the present day moment, which is fantastic. It does have a place in that sort of healing package of work, but it doesn't actually address the root cause. I sort of went and as you say, I went into that whole classic route of alcohol and drug addiction, partying my life away, working myself so that I was so busy that I didn't have to think about what was really going on at the emotional and the thought levels at that deeper. So it was kind of distracting, totally self medicating. It was like uppers and downers, drinking coffee in the day, get that buzz, go and run a marathon. Not that I've technically ever run a marathon, I always had the intention, but it could never get that far. But it's like the whole thing is these people that I've got this trauma, they keep themselves really busy and I was definitely playing into that stereotype. So whether it's addictions to relationships, alcohol, substances, exercise people think exercise is healthy. It is when it's done mindfully. But when it's done to distraction, it can cause more harm than good. I had like physical aches and pains. I can totally resonate with what you said at the start of the call. I had this pain just here and it just wouldn't go away. There was just no rhyme or reason for that pain being there. It was like just anxiety and just stress manifesting.

[06:27] Leigh: Your hand is over your heart, which obviously is the origin of your heart chakra, which the heart chakra is to do with love, connection, giving and receiving of love. Including self.

[06:41] Nicole: Yes. So it wasn't until I'm happy to be transparent about this. During that whole time, from my early twenty s to my mid to late 20s, I'd taken several overdoses and I was in so much pain and I couldn't recognize the pain that I was in. It's like if someone goes to a battlefield, like a soldier and they experience war, they know that they've experienced war. But when you've come from an experience of childhood abuse or trauma that's sort of more societal based, people just accept it and say it's a normal part of life. What happened with me is I didn't have that awareness of the longer term, deeper impact it had on me psychological and at an opportunistic level. Like, the opportunities in my life were limited because everything that I tried to do was always stifled by this unconscious programming that was just getting activated whenever a situation or an event mirrored something that was closer to home. So when I was 27, I was like, right, I've had enough of this. I'm not any good at ending things. I need to work out how I'm going to live. So it kind of changed focus. It was just a bit of an awakening moment for me. Hence why I call my brand Luna Awakening. And I can get into a bit more about that in a second as well, but just to go back to my history. So I started working with the NHS again and I went through the classic psychotherapy model, which was me sitting in a box with someone else and they were barely leading the conversation. I just had to basically talk whatever came into my mind. And the way I explained psychotherapy to me was like, you've got the bookshelf, and all the books are in this chaotic mess and there's no logical reasoning to how they've been placed there. And with psychotherapy, you're just pulling all the books off the shelf and then you're kind of placing them back one by one so that they do have some sort of law and order to them. So it was a piece of the puzzle that needed to happen because it helped me make sense of what I'd been through and where some of my trauma and triggers sat. Which I know sounds funny because I had the revelation back when I was 18 that I'd been trauma, but I was sort of like not accepting of the bigger impact it had on me. And it wasn't even until after I'd done this like a therapy that I appreciated the impact it had on me. Because I walked out of that therapy room going, right, that's it. I am fixed. Life is good. And then it came crashing back down again because I still hadn't addressed the habits and the thought processes and the beliefs and all of those energetic pulls, the hidden emotions. They were still sat there acting out under the surface to say, we need to be seen we need to be witnessed. And there was still a bit more denial on my part. But eventually when I did start working in that sort of energetic emotions, thoughts, feelings realm, I had made the most massive transformations. Like, life had different energy to it. I was just appreciating the sun shining on my face. I felt you mentioned earlier about the heart center. I used to have this deep, chronic empty feeling in my chest, like I just hated myself so much. And it switched from that to being a full feeling and a nice glowing feeling. And you can't know how that feeling feels until you've built it up internally. No one can give you that feeling. No relationship, no job, no career, no hobby can give you that feeling. You have to build it internally. And it was only then that I went on the route of the more coaching and the sort of more forward focused and the more sort of goal setting approach to life that I started making these big transformations in my life in terms of building up self love. Realizing that I still had fight and flight reactions that I wanted to basically put out. They didn't affect me anymore. And showing myself compassion and working with my inner child. I did in a child reparenting work as well on the journey. The result of that has been me sat here with you today, wanting to give this gift back to others.

[11:29] Leigh: Fantastic. Just to kind of make the audience aware as well. So I know you. How long have we known each other? You probably know more than me.

[11:37] Nicole: Well, I've been with Nick for four and a half years.

[11:40] Leigh: Okay. So we've known each other probably at least four years.

[11:43] Nicole: Yeah, definitely.

[11:44] Leigh: And what's quite interesting is I don't know your story. I've not heard that story before. And why would I? But the reason I wanted to get you on the podcast was because I saw your social media posts. And first of all, I just thought, people need to hear your story. And also, I can see that you've been through what we call a hero's journey. You've been through that period of pain, you've gone through the stages of healing, and now you've come out the other side. And now you're in perfect position to help other people that are kind of stuck in that same position that you were in when you were in your 20s.

[12:22] Nicole: Yeah. Something I would really speak to is that the people who worked with me on this journey were priceless. Because as much as you might want to do the journey alone, you do need someone else to hold the mirror up and reflect back to you what you're feeling, what you're saying, what you're presenting to the world. Because we like to think we know ourselves, but actually there is so much that is hidden that we're not consciously aware of, but other people can pick up on it. And you need that mirror, you need someone else to guide you and also to hold the space in a way that's safe and loving, especially if you don't have that love for yourself yet it's very hard to sit there and grieve or sit there with your anger. We can talk about these processes in a SEC, but it's like it's very hard to do those things successfully if you don't love yourself or you can't speak kindly to yourself, because you're just going to start beating yourself up even more and you're just being this never ending cycle. And those transformations, they won't come as easily, if at all.

[13:27] Leigh: And I would imagine as well, that there's a lot of people that are very what's the right words, at least, struggling to even go there, because the ego is trying to protect itself from the trauma. But the trauma and a lot of people is subconscious, so they don't even know about the trauma in their conscious mind. So their ego is saying, no, don't go there, because if you go there, that means there's pain. Right. Now, one thing that I've learned my 53 years of life, but also half of that as a practitioner, is that generally to achieve something amazing normally requires going out of your comfort zone or some level of pain. If you want to be in great shape physically, you've got to go through the pain in the gym, right?

[14:19] Nicole: Yeah.

[14:20] Leigh: And when it comes to your emotions, whilst it might be very daunting to do so, it's important that you, I guess, allow yourself to go through that pain. But from what you're saying is if you can find the right people to help you, it makes that process much more bearable.

[14:39] Nicole: Absolutely. Because they can mirror back to you the love and compassion that you need to feel and also to validate the emotions. The reason why so many people are so traumatized and I just want to add an extra layer to my story, which is that I was fortunate in that I uncovered the trauma that I had been through and my circumstances and the childhood that I had. It was very obvious to someone that these were bad experiences. Seeing someone be beaten up, having people have broken bones in the family home, having that inappropriate experiences between adults that's supposed to be caring for you in terms of their emotional, how emotionally attuned they are to you or not. Neglect for is the opposite of that. A lot of people think, I'm okay, I don't need that. That didn't happen to me. My mum wasn't abusing me like that. My dad didn't abandon me. And so they're going along in life with this low level trauma that is absolutely affecting them. At physical level. You mentioned the ailments in the body. At an emotional level, they're not able to express themselves to their full capacity. And when you can't express yourself in a negative way, it also means you can't express yourself in a positive way. It's like no emotion is safe. So you end up living a non life. I want to say, like, what do they call those characters in games or it's like a non real character or something. It's like that's what you end up with, virtual reality. Yeah, but you're like one of the extra characters. You just don't have anything going on for you. Just kind of like a robot going through the motions. And so a lot of people, they don't know that they've got this trauma sat there, and they don't know how vibrant and magical their life could be if they went through that hero's journey that we talk of, because they don't know what they're missing.

[16:34] Leigh: It's interesting. Something came to my mind when you were speaking then, and that was some years ago. I was working with a lady, and she was very overweight, and she clearly had some level of trauma. Whether she was aware of it or not, I don't know. When you've been a practitioner as long as I have, you can normally tell, right, or even tell the level of trauma someone's been under. But what was interesting with her so what I do with a lot of my clients, I get them to do a food diary, but they don't just note down what they eat, but how they react to the food. So whenever you eat, it affects your appetite, your satiety, your energy levels and your emotions, and that's how you can work out what foods are right for you. No doubt I'll do a podcast at some point, but with this particular lady who clearly, in my view, in my opinion, had some quite severe emotional trauma, she would fill the well, she would attempt to fill the forms in, and she said to me, I don't know how I feel. To me, I think the reason why she couldn't even feel whether she was hungry or not, right? And I think she was just numbing out every feeling because she just didn't want to go there with her. I ended up having a bit of a conversation with her, and I basically said, look, right now I don't think I'm the right person to help you. And I can't remember whether I referred her on. But that just shows you the level that some people can get to. They don't even want to appreciate how hungry they are because they don't want to feel anything because it's just too painful.

[18:18] Nicole: Exactly. And this goes back to the addictions. This goes back to the distraction. You know, that's a classic, someone's using food as a distraction technique. The feeling of fullness in the stomach. It's to bypass the emotional layer that's there. And yeah, a lot of people are just living this sort of, like, half life, which is not the one they would have designed and built for themselves if they would have, like, had that conscious awareness of what was going on. And so the work I do with people is to really help uncover what is going on in the subconscious. And you spoke earlier about some there's a level of fear. The reason is like, the ego is protecting. That was it was like ego protecting us. And I can speak a little bit about how that manifests. If that's good, yeah, go for it. So when we're really young, we've got our parental figures. They're looking after us. We are so vulnerable. We need them for our survival. And what our mind does is it quite quickly deciphers what is deemed as good behavior and what is deemed as bad, what beliefs we should have about ourselves. So it's beliefs about self. It's beliefs about how society runs our value system. And children's minds work on a binary, like a polarity. It's like black or white. I'm either good or I'm bad. I'm good enough or I'm not good enough. I'm lovable, I'm unlovable. And so if those messages don't add up to that picture that builds confidence and love and positive beliefs about self, then you will hold those internal beliefs that you're not good enough and you're unlovable. And then that will play out in your life because that's how your mind is seeing everything. But then there's this other layer, which is like the polarities of anger versus a pushover. And so it's not just about the beliefs about self, but it's like how we have to behave in society. And anger is a really useful one to talk about because everyone can relate to anger. We're always told, don't be angry. Share, don't be selfish, don't hit that person. And so what we do is we learn that anger is bad. But the opposite of anger is like, that people pleasing behavior. Like, I'm never going to bring up anything that is going to put a risk of conflict. I'm always going to toe the line. I'm not going to assert any boundaries. So what then happens is this person grows up and they're like 25 years old, and because they got this messaging when they were seven that anger is bad, they live their life as this pushover, this people pleaser, who doesn't have any boundaries, isn't able to say no, get a massive anxiety attack at the thought of saying no. And with the work I do, it's like saying, okay, but what are the positives of anger? Because everything, it's the yin and the yang, everything has a positive and a negative polarity to it. And so it's getting the client to work with what their life would look like if they even just were able to allow a little bit of that thing or feeling that they're not allowing it at the moment. So it's the anger. It's like, what benefit would anger and the boundaries and the ability to say no do for your life? And it's not to say that you then have to go to the opposite extreme of being this rage for hateful individual. But it's like bringing it back to the middle. That the balance of the scale. And then you are living in conscious awareness because you're not running from the unconscious fear of being seen as an angry person. You're now able to make conscious decisions for yourself and your life. And that's going to put you on a whole different trajectory.

[22:15] Leigh: Absolutely. My understanding of anger is that the positive aspects of anger is that it normally drives some level of change. So if you're angry about something, it's like, well, I'm going to do something about that. That can be a positive aspect. The other thing I think is quite important to mention here, for those that aren't aware of this, I'm pretty sure you're aware of what I'm about to say. But when we're children in the first two years of life, our brainwave state is in what's called delta state, which in an adult human is the state we're in. We're in deep sleep. And then from the age of two to seven, children can also access the theater state, which is also known as twilight reverie, which is the state as an adult that you're in when you're just going into or just coming out of sleep. So that time when you think, oh, am I awake or am I asleep, that's the theta brainwave state. Now, both delta and theta are hypnotic levels of brain activity. So as a child, the first seven years of your life, whatever is in your environment gets programmed into your brain at a subconscious level. And then unless you do something about it and sometimes it's not easy, those behaviors occur subconsciously, so you don't even know that you're doing them. And also, if there was any trauma during those first seven years, there's a good chance that you won't even remember them. Which leads me on really nicely to my next question. So one of the things that I know you want to talk about today is the shadow. So could you describe to the audience what the shadow actually is?

[24:02] : You're listening to the Radical Health Rebel podcast.

[24:09] Leigh: Just a brief interruption to this podcast to talk about adult acne. Now, did you know that 40% to 54% of men and women older than 25 years will have some degree of facial acne? And that clinical facial acne persists into middle age in 12% of women and 3% of men? I know only too well the devastating effects that actually can have on your confidence and your self esteem and how it can easily destroy your social life, your career and your relationships. I know this only too well because I suffered from severe cystic acne from age 13 to 31 over an 18 year period. I visited my doctor on many occasions and his only suggestions were acne creams, harsh cleansers and antibiotics that weren't working and were actually making my skin worse. After 18 years of struggle and thousands of pounds invested in treatments that didn't work, through my professional education, I began to learn that what my doctor had told me was untrue, and that diet was directly related to acne, plus other factors such as food sensitivities, toxicity, hormones, and balancing the body's microbiome. Putting what I had learned into practice, I managed to rip myself of acne over 20 years ago and have been helping others to do the same for well over a decade. By teaching people what foods cause acne, what food sensitivities each individual has, how to optimize their detox pathways, how to reduce environmental stresses and toxins, and how to balance hormones, especially those related to the mTOR pathway, a major causal factor with acne. I've been able to help many other adults overcome their acne nightmare, too. So if you would like more information on how to overcome your adult acne, please go to www.skinwebinar.com. That's www.skinwebinar.com, where you can also request an Acne Breakthrough call with me to see if you are suitable for my Eliminate Adult Acne coaching program, where you can once and for all learn how to overcome your adult acne. Now back to the podcast.

[26:23] Nicole: Yeah. So going back to that example of anger, the shadow is everything that we have completely forgotten about ourselves, and that can be both positive and negative traits. So in the example of anger, at the age of seven, you were showing anger towards a toy or person, and your mom comes along and says, you've got this mum that's saying, don't be angry. So you push that anger into your shadow. It just basically means the unconscious. And it's all of the judgments, thoughts, feelings, emotions that we just weren't permitted to feel. And it can work in the opposite direction as well. It can work with you, what we call the light aspects of our personality. Maybe as a child, you were very theatrical and you like to put on shows, and your dad comes along and says, no, we don't do that. You're going to be a doctor. You know, no one makes money making music or being in the theater, so you're going to knuckle down and you're going to get a good job. It doesn't mean that trait, that personality characteristic, is lost on you. You will still have admiration, and you will see people who have made it in the music industry or theater, and you'll look up to them and you'll be like, oh, they're so magical not appreciating that the reason that you can see the magic in them is because that magic sits in you. So one of the bits of this work that I really do appreciate is unlocking the positive traits that we've denied in ourselves, as well as showing love and self acceptance to the ones that we deem as bad. They're not really bad. It's just that's how we've been programmed to see them. The shadow is just everything that we've denied about ourselves, that is part of our lived reality. So therefore, shadow work is that return to wholeness and the accepting of everything as is. And then when you live from that position or perspective of wholeness, you can then make truly aligned decisions for your life that aren't based on the fact that your dad told you you needed to get into the corporate career. It's not like saying you have to have that breakdown that says, right, I'm just going to cut it all in and I'm going to join the circus. But it's about saying, okay, maybe I can take up these hobbies and that's okay. If that helps answer what the shadow is.

[28:52] Leigh: Yeah, definitely. From your experience, what would you say is the benefit of working with the shadow?

[29:01] Nicole: Oh my God, there are so many. Like the Ailments. Once you start working with the trapped emotions and you start releasing those in a safe environment, any physical aches and pains that are related to that energy that was stored in the body will start to dissipate. You'll start to feel healthier in your body. I don't really get that chest pain anymore. It's only when I'm under extreme stress or anxiety and then I go away and do these tools to help release it. You'll end up with better relationships. You might even find that some of the people that you kept in your life don't resonate anymore. So you actually start building new relationships more in alignment with who you really are, because it is part of it is like undoing some of that conditioning. And then you might realize some of the situations you put yourself in aren't really the most loving. But on top of that, you would then attract people who are more aligned to your authentic version of you. So you'll also have better relationships because you won't be as triggered by everyone around you. I don't know if you've ever had that experience where you go to the supermarket and you see someone and they're acting in a way that is just completely triggering for you. Maybe they're not overly confident or speaking really loud on their phone and you're just thinking, who is this guy? What are they up to? And you won't be triggered like that anymore because the reason that person is triggering you is because there's something in your shadow that is calling out to be witnessed and heard. And that's its way of showing you that it's there. So once you've been witnessed and heard it, the trigger doesn't need to present itself anymore. So you'll walk around in your day to day life, just life will feel more relaxed. You won't have as many, like those moments where your head is just like a bit of a brain fog because there's this trigger that's happened. Now your cognitive side of your brain shutting down. That won't happen. And yeah, you'll be able to go after opportunities that you. Didn't feel able to before because you won't be sabotaging and you won't be procrastinating. So you can really undo that core fear that sits underneath that's actually preventing you from reaching the goals. And what I would speak to for that is sometimes, or a lot of the times, the things that we say are preventing us from reaching our goals sound really valid. Like, oh, well, I've got a child, so I can't build a new business, or Well, I'd never be able to run a marathon because I'm overweight. There are genuine reasons.

[31:24] Leigh: I can't get healthy because I can't afford it.

[31:26] Nicole: Yeah, I can't get healthy because I.

[31:27] Leigh: Hear that one a lot. I hear that a lot, actually.

[31:31] Nicole: There's a core fear there, and the ego is trying to protect that layer of protection. It's trying to prevent you from stepping outside and becoming this new you. It's holding on to the identity that it's built because that identity is what's kept you alive up until now. But what a lot of people find is for me. It happened when I was 27. But for most people. What Young talked about. Because a lot of the coaching I do is based on young psychotherapy and psychology. He was talking to the fact that a lot of people from the ages of 35 to 40 gets that calling where they realize their life has been on autopilot. And they start asking those bigger questions and they say. Is this it? Is there something more for me? And some people will go and sabotage it by buying a sports car, dying their hair, and midlife crisis, having a midlife crisis. And other people will see the calling for what it is, which is you're being called to actually go deeper inside, not to try and obtain more outside. And that's a big part of this work, is if you've got that big goal that you're trying to aim for, the reason you haven't got that goal in your life at the moment is because you can't hold that goal. You don't have the right container for it inside. You're resorting. You're not resourced well enough for it, but the resources there, you just don't have access to it. So this work is about how do we shift the internal dynamics to support these external goals that you have for yourself. And once you start shifting the internal dynamics, like your beliefs about self, the emotions that sit there and hold these ego stories in place, once we start moving those out of the body and the psyche, then the outside world will just start magically shifting. That thing about walking in the supermarket, I mean, imagine walking in the supermarket with like pink sunglasses on and then taking those off and then walking through the all the time, like blue sunglasses on. Like you're literally seeing a different perspective because inside has changed. But that same scenario is still playing out. But you're now attuned to a different reality within it.

[33:38] Leigh: I don't know if you've kind of answered this question already or if there is more detail to go into, but can you maybe describe the specifics that you went through to kind of work through your shadow self?

[33:52] Nicole: Yeah, it's an ongoing journey. It's one that's never really complete. Maybe one day I will wake up and be like oh, that's it, I'm Buddha, maybe. But it really starts with becoming mindful. Mindfulness is really key with this work. If you don't know what you're thinking, then you've got no chance of being the witness of what you're thinking. So I like to the way I like to explain this to people is like thinking of your thoughts as like a radio station being tuned on. So it's about going into meditation time, just selfreflection and seeing what thoughts pop into your mind and just having this awareness that actually you don't have any control over those thoughts. Those thoughts just come and it is like listening to a radio and it's like who put those thoughts there? Was it you? Is that something you would have consciously thought or said to yourself? And then by bringing that distance to the thought process, you can then start to critique it like that I just said and you can start to say, no, actually, I would speak more lovingly to myself. And then you start to bring in a dialogue with the thoughts. Why are they there? Once you've kind of got the mindfulness with the thoughts, that's still very intellectual process. We need to get into the energy. And this is why I would recommend working with someone who is experienced in this. But you need to get into the Semitic. I wasn't able to do that by myself alone to start with. Although being so much further down the road, I can obviously do some of that work individually, independently. But yeah, it's about connecting back in with the body. So that person that you spoke to earlier with wanting to lose weight, it's helping that person get attuned to what's happening in their body in a safe way. Noticing the sensations, naming the sensations, feeling the sensations move. And then it's bringing that process by linking the two. So it's like linking the thought with the sensation. Because mind is one, it's not the brain and then the central nervous system. It's all one. Mind is body is mind. So the wisdom that sits within the body, the emotions, the feelings, the felt sense, that is then going to help start to bring the narratives out, the stories that are going on in the subconscious. And you spoke to this earlier, it's really good if you can get into that sort of more relaxed, fata sort of brainwave state in order to do this work. You're not able to consciously think these things to resolution. You need to go to that more relaxed brainwave state to start manipulating what goes on under the surface.

[36:37] Leigh: Yeah, because those hypnotic brainwave states, they can access the subconscious.

[36:42] Nicole: Yeah.

[36:42] Leigh: So that's why hypnosis. A lot of people work. For some people it doesn't work, but for most people, if you can access the subconscious, well, then what can you do? You can rewrite the program. Remember the first seven years of your life, your mind was programmed. Well, to be able to reprogram it, you need to get into the same brainwave state. So the analogy I've used in the past is, and I'm showing my age here, imagine you've got a CD or DVD that's rerecordable or rewritable. Well, let's say you record, I don't know, Madonna onto the CD. That's like five year old child gets programmed. CD gets programmed as Madonna. But then what if you're 25 and you're fed up with Madonna, what you can do is you can stick it in a machine and you can reprogram it, and maybe you want Michael Jackson, I don't know, whoever. Right. So our mind is almost like a CD and there's a window of opportunity to program it. And that's the first seven years of life. And that's why I mentioned earlier it can be difficult to reprogram it as an adult because it's harder to access that subconscious. But it is possible.

[37:59] Nicole: Yeah. So the coaching work that I do is basically using the ways that we can communicate with the subconscious mind to bring about those deeper transformations for people. So it's active visualization imagination, working with the felt sense in the body, taking the position of the witness mind, as I said, and sort of dialogue with what's coming up in order to make those shifts. And when those shifts happen, that person, they don't then need to consciously think, okay, today I'm going to be a more relaxed person. It's just going to naturally emanate from them. I like to use this metaphor of like a plant that's never flowered before, and the plant has within it the innate wisdom of how to flower, but it hasn't experienced it yet, and it needs the right environment, it needs the sun shining on it and it needs raining, rain coming down on it and watering. But with that guidance and with the external support, the opportunity to bud into a flower, it just comes naturally, like it doesn't need to be forced. And then the result of that is this beautiful flower that actually now attracts butterflies and bees and it smells good and it looks amazing. And that is this journey. It's like with the right nurturing, the right visualization exercises, the right active imagination, and working with the body, then naturally, that authentic you, that is love, that is joy, is going to just start radiating outwards, and that bee can now go off and make honey. So you haven't only just healed yourself and brought wholeness to yourself, but you're now paying that back to other people.

[39:53] Leigh: Yes. I really like that analogy. That's really good. So I guess my next question I think you've almost started answering the next question. What could someone expect? What kind of outcomes could someone expect from the type of coaching that you do?

[40:10] Nicole: Yes. I like to work with people that do have a positive intention in mind. I think that's really important. The way coaching is different to therapy is that coaching. We're trying to work towards a specific goal. So I'm looking for people who are driven to have something more in their life that they've not been able to achieve yet. So clients that I have at the moment are trying to set up their own businesses. They've always worked in the corporate world. They now want to go solo. So it's about uncovering the blocks that are going to potentially sabotage their efforts. It might be someone who really wants to have a relationship that they've never been able to achieve before. And that could be friendships or it could be a partner, a life partner, or even within the family dynamics. People can use this modality to bring about change, positive change in many different areas of their life, or even if they're within the same job, but they want to go to that next level and they've never been able to achieve it before. It's all about having that positive intention in mind and then we can build a plan to sort of work towards it and uncover the blocks.

[41:14] Leigh: So really your approach is to take someone who perhaps wants to achieve a specific goal, either perhaps maybe don't believe they can do it or they've tried but they've failed, or perhaps they want to do something completely new with their life. Would that be correct?

[41:33] Nicole: Absolutely. Because in any of these scenarios, the ego is going to be going, absolutely not. This isn't something we've done before. We've got a nice job, we've got a family, we've got this, we've got that, we don't need to make any major changes. But, you'll know, if you've got that calling inside that says, is this my life? And if you want to answer that calling and you want to explore, maybe you don't even know what it is exactly that you're going towards. Because some people come into this work thinking that their goal is X. When they start doing the work, they uncover that was actually ego subconscious programming, that was telling them to keep going for the same thing again. And then they changed their mind up and they're like, really? I want why? So it can go different ways. But it is good to have an outcome in mind.

[42:27] Leigh: It's interesting. When you were speaking then I went back to a thought I had in the mid 1990s when I was in an office job and I was earning good money. I have my own home. I was in my mid twenties. I have my own home. Had a nice car. I had enough money to go on holiday every year partied hard at the weekends. Going to the gym during the week. Anyone looking from the outside would have kind of said. I had everything I wanted and I had a job that I enjoyed. But I would still wake up every day and think. It's got to be more to life than this. But what I was passionate about was going to the gym and what meals I was going to eat next because I was into the nutrition and I was sitting down having dinner one day with a couple of trainers and they wanted to know how I knew all this information. They said, we've got first class degrees from Luftborough and you're talking about fitness as if you've done a first class degree, but you haven't. Now, how have you got all this information? It was because I was passionate, I studied and they said, Why don't you do what we do? And that was my light bulb moment. Now, I can imagine some people would have been in some way triggered by that and gone, but I can't because right now, I'm not saying for 1 second, I'm in anyway, perfect.

[44:00] Nicole: Yeah.

[44:00] Leigh: But I've never been someone that is not willing to take risks and I do remember having a conversation with my mum and she's like, what are you doing? You've got a good job, you're earning good money, you've got a home, you've got a mortgage to pay. Do you really want to go and work in the fitness industry? And I remember I said something along the lines of, if I don't, I'm going to be depressed, right?

[44:28] Nicole: Yeah.

[44:29] Leigh: So it sounds to me like the kind of work that you do is let's say there's me in a parallel universe and I'm in this office job, it's not really fulfilling me at a deep level, but also something stopping me from doing what I really want to do.

[44:47] Nicole: Yeah, exactly.

[44:48] Leigh: That to me sounds like kind of the kind of people you really want to help.

[44:52] Nicole: Yeah. People that are feeling called to find out more about themselves, go after a big vision dream and just learn and experience life in a fresh new way. Let's shake it up a bit, let's get some different energy dynamics going on here. I mean, yeah, you don't know me before the journey started, really, but, you know, if I could speak to my old self, I was just depressed and lonely and I was surrounded by people, but totally lonely because I couldn't connect with any of them in a meaningful way and I was just so fearful of taking that plunge. Outside of all of the programming about, you must get a corporate job, you must have this sort of lifestyle, you must live in this sort of place, you must be partying. And actually, that was all just air conditioning that I'd received and so if someone could step outside of that conditioning and actually live within their authentic self, I mean, what a gift. Right? And that's just magical for me.

[45:55] Leigh: There's a quote by a psychologist called Jerry WESH. Have you heard of Jerry Welsh?

[46:00] Nicole: No, I not heard of him.

[46:01] Leigh: He says if you have a big enough dream you don't need a crisis.

[46:06] Nicole: Yeah.

[46:10] Leigh: Because what do a lot of people do? They live their life and they go from crisis to crisis. And I'm guessing if there's someone listening to this and they recognize themselves as that they're going from crisis to crisis. It could be they just need to find themselves a big enough dream to aim for again. Kind of the work that you do is you take people that are going from crisis to crisis and you help them. Do you help them uncover their dream or do they need the dream to already be in place?

[46:46] Nicole: That's what I'm saying. Just having the goal of finding out what their dream is would be a big enough goal. It's something they've never done before. They never ask themselves those deeper questions. But if they have something in mind then that's also really good to say. I want to change jobs.

[47:06] Leigh: So it could be someone who's lost. Really?

[47:09] Nicole: Yeah.

[47:10] Leigh: I know I'm not happy but I don't really know why and I don't really know what I need to do next. But perhaps working with someone like yourself you can help them uncover what it is they really want to do or what is their next kind of step in life.

[47:24] Nicole: Yeah, the work. Typically people come into this around their 30s because the neocortex, the front part of the brain is not really online properly until mid twenty s twenty five, twenty seven years old depending where you read. And so people that before that maybe their ego is not quite solidified yet enough to be able to work with this modality. So a lot of the people I work with, they do have quite strong egos that built up and they've managed to make success of their life. Despite all my trauma I'd still manage to find massive success in the corporate world. Still had the relationship like you say, had the nice home and all that stuff. I still managed to build up a nice life for myself because egos help us survive in the environment that we're sat in. But then there becomes that calling that says is this really what I want? So I'm not trying to work with people who are highly trauma. I speak of my own journey of trauma because what I'm trying to do is show people how powerful it is to work with the subconscious mind. Because it was through working with my subconscious mind that I healed all of that other stuff that was going on. But even people with lower level anxiety and dissatisfaction with their life would really benefit from this work. So yeah, if you're in a corporate job and you think is this it's? Like who I'm really trying to speak to, I guess, is like helping them out of the matrix, as we like to call it, and into what I call authentic living.

[48:57] Leigh: One of the things that came to mind when you were speaking then is that a lot of clients that come to me, they might come to me because they've got back pain or knee pain or shoulder pain or they've got IBS or they've got skin problems. What happens a lot of the time, certainly more than 50% of the time, at some point in the process, I end up coaching them through career change.

[49:21] Unknown Speaker: Fascinating.

[49:22] Leigh: So it's like, yeah, they're coming to me because they think it's because they want to get out of pain, but actually, quite often it's a much bigger thing that they come to me for. They just don't know it yet. There's something in their subconscious that's attracted them to me to help them. And whilst they might think it's better skin, of course, I'm sure they do want better skin or they want a healthy back or whatever it might be, but actually a much deeper level. It's because they're ready for their next step in life, really.

[49:52] Nicole: Yeah. Their soul is calling out to say, we need to solve this thing that's manifesting on the external, but it's actually a problem that's on the internal, and once the internal is addressed, then they're able to make the external changes. So that's how it often works, isn't it? You notice there's something externally wrong, you have to actually solve it on the internal and then the external will shift.

[50:16] Leigh: Absolutely.

[50:18] : The Radical Health Rebel is also available on YouTube. Find bite size clips from our episodes on the Radical Health Rebel YouTube channel.

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[54:15] Nicole: Yeah, it's a really good question. The ego in my line of work is about all of the thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and actions that you're consciously aware of, and they don't need to be things that you're externally presenting to the world. Because in my training, what I'm learning about at the moment is about persona. So the persona is the bit that you're happy to show to the world, and then the ego is actually all of the thoughts and feelings and behaviors that you're consciously aware of. So it could be judgments about others emotions that you feel, but it's everything that's happening at the conscious layer and then anything that's unconscious is in your shadow.

[54:58] Leigh: Yeah. Got you.

[55:00] Nicole: So it's just about the personality that you present to the world.

[55:05] Leigh: Got you. Yeah. I mean, my understanding of the ego is what you believe yourself to be. But obviously what we know about the conscious and the subconscious is that our conscious is only about 5% at best. Right. So most of what we really are is actually subconscious. So for most people, we don't really know who we are. We have a belief of who we are. Or we have another word, a facade. You put out there the facade of who you want people to believe you.

[55:42] Nicole: To be based on your past conditioning that you think is acceptable, which is based on the past conditioning.

[55:48] Leigh: Absolutely. It's like you're wearing a mask.

[55:50] Nicole: Absolutely right.

[55:52] Leigh: But masks can get heavy, they can weigh you down. So the more masks you can get rid of, the lighter you feel, the more of an authentic life you can lead.

[56:02] Nicole: Yeah. I wore the mask of the party animal for many years. I wore the mask of the rescuer coming from a traumatic background and wanting to save other people. And then when you start doing the work, you realize that actually the only person that can save you is yourself. Other people can hold the space for you and help you on the journey, but you ultimately need to be responsible for you. This work is not for everyone because it is very deep and it does really make you ask those fundamental questions about who you are and who you really are and how you came to be that you are today and to ask whether that's serving you anymore. It can be quite a shock to be like, actually, no, I've basically built my life up around this alter ego and there's actually a lot more to me and there can be a lot of grief to process in this work. All the experiences that you didn't have because of the way you've been programmed. And that's something that we work with as well.

[57:05] Leigh: Yeah, absolutely. So how would someone get started with this kind of work?

[57:11] Nicole: Yeah, so find someone who's qualified in it. So I'm currently doing a psychodynamic coaching qualification that's going to be concluding around about November time. But yeah, find someone who's qualified. And you're looking for sort of shadow work psychodynamic, because that's going to be working with the body, working with the unconscious. But I will be looking to work with people and obviously would love to be on board with people that are listening to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. So yeah, I can share that as well.

[57:49] Leigh: So when you were talking just now, the other thing that kind of came to mind is my interpretation of what you answered on the previous question was that it takes a certain level of bravery for someone to take this path. It's not for the kind of the meek, shall we say. You need to be ready for it, and you need to be ready to, as I said, step outside of that comfort zone and go through a little bit of pain, short term pain for long term gain. Like. Say the analogy is you go to the gym. You work hard. You get the benefit. But this is similar. But it's working through mental emotional yeah.

[58:30] Nicole: If you think about. Like. The timeline of my journey. If you can relate it back to that. Like. I had to heal the alcoholism and stop the partying. Then I was ready for psychotherapy. Then I was ready for some sort of NLP. And it was only after I dressed, like, the flashback, like the core flashbacks that I was having that I was then ready for sort of, like, more intense shadow work. So only after I built up some form of self love and some form of self acceptance was I ready to then go really into the core of who I was. If someone's at the very start of that journey where they're still using quite a lot of addiction patterns to get by in life, then maybe they're not ready, or they are still having a lot of intense flashbacks to the point where they're being triggered into fight and flight responses, of which addictions is a flight response. They're probably not ready, but someone who's maybe been to therapy and they've addressed some of those core wounds and they're sitting there. This is the thing. I did all that work and I dressed all these core wounds and I sat there and I still just thought, is this it? I have gone through all this pain, all this effort, and I still am lost. And it wasn't until I started doing the shadow work that I was actually starting able to plan, like, a future for myself. So, yeah, I don't know if that helped clarify at what point of the journey someone needs to be on in order to benefit from this.

[01:00:01] Leigh: Absolutely. The way that I see it is that any kind of healing, quite often, but particularly mental, emotional healing, it's like an onion and you've got all the different layers of an onion. You start with the outer layer, because if you were just to strip the whole thing in one go, it would just be too much for anybody. I've often spoken to people, whether it's friends or clients, and they say, oh, yeah, I went for that therapy, I'm healed now. And I don't respond openly to that, but I think I think to myself, okay, you just wait, because there will come a point where you will find there's a lot more layers to go. It's great that they've done one of the layers, but from my experience, one layer doesn't get the job done. And I'm sure every one of us has further layers to go. Right. As we get older, we get more opportunity to heal from our childhood, but, you know, none of us probably get to the ultimate finish line, but we can go as far as we possibly can. There's always improvement, I guess, is what I'm trying to get across.

[01:01:12] Nicole: Yeah. And the great thing about this work is once you do learn the tools and once you do have those mechanisms, you'll find your life is a lot more stable. And then even if you come across a trigger, you'll be like, oh, I've got this toolbox in my pocket. So I always say I work with people for at least a block of at least ten sessions because you really need to get into the call and make to get those transformations on the way. It's not just going to be like an overnight process. It's funny because it can sometimes you can have that big breakthrough and then that thing just won't bother you anymore and it'll be like, okay, that's now you don't really notice that it's not a trigger anymore because you're not triggered by it. But you do notice that your life is sort of karma. And then other times you might have to wrestle with something for a bit because we spoke earlier to the fact that there could be multiple layers of emotions that you need to tackle. And if you think about, like, the grieving process grieving is like denial, anger, grief, acceptance. So imagine that process over and over again with each trigger or belief that you had that you're now trying to undo. So it can take some time, but it's permanent. It's not like signing up with the gym and running and then you need to go back and it didn't actually have any long term effects. If you can get into the root of the mindset as to why someone doesn't want to go to the gym and fix it there, then they'll get up and run every morning. But trying to do that process every day without addressing that internal programming, they're always going to be that resistance. So it's about undoing that resistance and then things just magically start happening.

[01:02:57] Leigh: Fantastic. So that leads nicely onto my next question, which you've started answering. How long does the process take for most people?

[01:03:08] Nicole: Well, I would say give yourself at least six months of maybe a weekly meeting or every fortnight. Each person's individual and with the emotion, work comes up. There were times where I would do a bit of emotional work and it would have an effect on me for at least a couple of weeks. So being able to work with a coach who's sensitive to that and able to adapt to each client's threshold and tolerance for the work is really key. I'd say give yourself at least six months. If you've not done any of this work before then, you're going to need to kind of get to a base level. And I think at least six months to get there would be fair.

[01:03:52] Leigh: So that would be the minimum. Would you hazard a guess at what like an average time might be? I know everyone's different.

[01:04:02] Nicole: Yeah. So individual and it depends on the level of the goal, I guess, as well, because the goal is going to bring up the triggers and each individual person is going to have different triggers. For me, it's a lifetime of work, but it's like you do a chunk of it and then you're just maintaining a level. That's how I like to see it.

[01:04:30] Leigh: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, when I asked that question, I had a year in my head. That's kind of what I was thinking. But I guess for some people it can happen quicker than that.

[01:04:41] Nicole: Yeah. Imagine like, you do your first six months and you think things are much better now and you've reached that goal, you're starting to take the action towards the goal and it's manifesting in your life in the external when you think, right, I can take a break from this now. But then there's another section of the goal later on in your life that pops up and that froze up even more, like ego triggers and shadow work. And then you can start the process again, but with the new triggers. So I can't say how many triggers someone's going to have because it's so unique and it depends on the goal.

[01:05:19] Leigh: So I know you said your process is still ongoing, but how long did it take for you from the start to the point where you kind of felt, okay, I'm doing pretty good now.

[01:05:32] Nicole: I'd say like maybe about twelve sessions.

[01:05:38] Leigh: Okay, wow.

[01:05:39] Nicole: But like I said, some of them because you're working with the subconscious, because if you make the change at the subconscious at the root of the problem, then it never bothers you ever again. But as I said, I just don't know how many different trigger points someone's going to have that they need to work through and how easily they'll be able to work with the modalities and how much we call them ego defenses, but how much resistance they're going to have to the process. That's all going to be very individual, but for me it was about twelve sessions.

[01:06:11] Leigh: So how long in time were those twelve sessions covered in?

[01:06:17] Nicole: About six months.

[01:06:18] Leigh: Okay. Wow. That sounds pretty quick to me, but that's great.

[01:06:24] Nicole: But then I think I did take to the process quite well.

[01:06:28] Leigh: Yes. You are ready for it, right?

[01:06:30] Nicole: Yeah, and I've done a lot of other work before that and a lot of work in between. It's not just about sitting with the coach and just doing like that 1 hour and thinking, okay, that's it. My responsibility is now at the door, as in the client's responsibility. They need to go away and then journal on stuff and meditate on stuff. So I would say that in those six months or the twelve week process that I just talked about every single day, I was then going away and journaling and noticing and witnessing. And so you can make that process a lot faster if you've got that commitment to it.

[01:07:06] Leigh: So that's the difference between therapy and coaching, isn't it? Coaching is facilitating something in the client. So the client goes away and does the work, takes responsibility for themselves, whereas therapy, generally the therapist does the therapy on the client or the patient. When you see a therapist, you're generally quite passive in the approach, whereas when you work with a coach, you're active as a patient, you're active or client, you're active in the approach, so you have a certain level of responsibility for your results. Whereas when you see a therapist, there's generally no great responsibility on yourself.

[01:07:44] Nicole: Yeah, I've only worked with a couple of therapists, I've talked about my experiences there with CBT and a bit of psychotherapy and yeah, you are sort of just left between sessions. One of the things I like to do is offer people the opportunity to access me via email and WhatsApp. And if something big was coming up for someone, then of course I would be jumping on a call a bit earlier to help coach someone through what's coming up. Because the key part of this work is that whole mirroring that the coaches there seeing what the client can't see in themselves. You spoke to it as well. You can sometimes look at someone and say. Yeah. I know this is the start of your journey. Or this is a part of the journey. But there's maybe more. But they can't see it because they're in the story. Whereas you can reflect that story back to them and that helps bring them into the witness mind and they say. I didn't realize that. Okay, that's interesting, then they can start doing the work. One of the things I like to offer to clients is that ability to have that support outside of therapy sessions. Are they coaching? Do you see what I mean? That's the difference with therapy, is what I was trying to say.

[01:08:51] Leigh: So the coaching process for you was six months?

[01:08:55] Nicole: Yeah.

[01:08:56] Leigh: But before that, how long was the process leading up to the coaching? How long in time was it from when you started therapy to when you started the coaching?

[01:09:09] Nicole: So I did therapy when I was 29, finished at just before my 30th birthday, and then I didn't start doing therapy work until I was maybe 32 to 33 years old.

[01:09:24] Leigh: Okay, so you did therapy for about a year? Yes, had a break for a couple of years and then did coaching. Okay, so the whole process was about three and a half years in total. And do you feel in your experience, did you need that two years for the therapy to kind of sink in? Or could you have probably started the coaching sooner.

[01:09:50] Nicole: Well, it's all about someone being ready. I think I was still quite in denial. I'd left the therapy room and you said it earlier, I was one of those people that was like, that's it, I'm fixed, I've done my year. That's what the NHS tells me I need. It's all good, it's all gravy. And it wasn't because I still had the unconscious habits. So even though on a conscious level, I could say, yeah, I'm good underneath, I'm still sabotaging the ego, still saying, this isn't safe. We need to protect ourselves from X, Y and Z. So, you know, I had these visions to want to do bigger things for my life and I kept sabotaging them, launching my own business. I wanted to do that, but because I still had all the unconscious blocks, I wasn't able to. But as soon as I started clearing the blocks, things started changing for me. I was able to start building my social media platforms and putting myself on podcasts. You can literally see the point where someone starts shifting because the external mirrors what's happened on the inside.

[01:10:57] Leigh: And your social media posts are great, by the way. That's why you're on this podcast, because of your social media posts. That's why I wanted you on the podcast.

[01:11:06] Nicole: Thank you.

[01:11:08] Leigh: So, I mean, this has been a fantastic chat so far. Is there anything else that you'd 

like to add?

[01:11:16] Nicole: I mean, only if, you know, people are called to work with me. I'm offering the opportunity to do so to your listeners. I don't know if you want me to speak a little bit more about that offer.

[01:11:28] Leigh: Yeah, go for it.

[01:11:29] Nicole: How that works. I'm looking to work with, obviously, individuals that have got a big goal in mind. So if you feel cool to sort of find out a bit more about yourself, what it is that's going to light you up inside and that big vision dream, actually make it a reality rather than just keep thinking about it and intellectualizing all the reasons why it can't happen for you, I'm offering people a 1 hour dream workshop. So in this, we'll look at your goal, we'll start to uncover some of those blocks for you, so you can start to really step into that witness mind and see for yourself the power of this work. So it's a free 60 minutes session, and then if you were to sign up to my signature coaching package, at the end of that, there will be a discount for medical Health rebel listeners.

[01:12:16] Leigh: Fantastic. Fantastic. And how do they contact you?

[01:12:20] Nicole: Yeah, so I'm going to send you a link to put in the comments. Okay.

[01:12:25] Leigh: Put it in show notes.

[01:12:26] Nicole: Yeah, just be a link to my calendar. So just book the call and I'll know that it would have come through this channel and then we will go through that process. And I'm really excited.

[01:12:37] Leigh: Fantastic. Fantastic. So what's next for nicole?

[01:12:42] Nicole: Well, as I said, getting this qualification finished, which will be November of this year, and then yeah, I was starting to work with clients that I'm working with and helping them with big transformation. So it's continuing that journey and then just building more of my online presence than getting my community up and running.

[01:13:04] Leigh: Fantastic. And obviously you're going to continue doing the most important job in the world, which is being a mother.

[01:13:12] Nicole: Yeah.

[01:13:15] Leigh: Patty, I might have to get you back on the podcast at some time to talk about being a parent as well, because I've seen you in action and you are a fantastic mother.

[01:13:25] Nicole: Thank you.

[01:13:26] Leigh: So I might have to get you back on to talk about parenthood as well at some point.

[01:13:30] Nicole: Yeah, because it's really funny you bring that up. Wanting to be a mum was the driving force that said, I need to sort my head out because I can't bring a child into this world with this much chaos going on inside, and then that was reflected outside. So wanting that desire, that motherhood calling, is what really led me to heal. So, yeah, that would be totally appropriate.

[01:13:55] Leigh: Fantastic. I don't think I've seen anyone as good a mother as you.

[01:14:03] Nicole: Thank you. That means a lot. It really does.

[01:14:07] Leigh: So where else can the audience find you online? Like social media and things like that? Or your website?

[01:14:15] Nicole: Yes, it's lunarawakening.com, but it's lunar with an R, because speaking of lunar awakening, it's lunar with an R because it's of the moon. It's the qualities of the moon, it's not the moon itself. And that's why I work, too, is the qualities of the individual. And I liked Luna because obviously the moon has a shadow side and that shadow manipulates how the moon presents itself to the world. And that's basically what I'm speaking to, isn't it? It's about uncovering that shadow and bringing more light into the equation. Lunar awakening.com, Facebook and Instagram are my key places where I'm resident online at the moment.

[01:14:59] Leigh: So, again, they're lunar awakening and Luna.

[01:15:02] Nicole: With an R. Yeah, that's right.

[01:15:04] Leigh: Fantastic. Fantastic. So, Nicole, I just want to thank you again for taking your time out. I know it's been, let's call it a challenge, trying to fit this into your schedule with your studies and helping people, coaching, and obviously your full time job, which is being a mother to a ten month old. Is she now?

[01:15:24] Nicole: Ten months? Yeah.

[01:15:26] Leigh: Who eats for England, takes after her dad. Absolutely. Okay, fantastic. So that's all from us today, and don't forget, you can join me same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel podcast.

[01:15:46]  Thanks for tuning in to the Radical Health Rebel podcast with Lee Brandon. You can find Leigh at www.bodychek. Co.UK that’s bodychek.co.uk. Please hit the like button and share on your social media and with someone you feel will benefit from watching this episode. So together, we can help them lead a healthier, more productive, fulfilling and happy life.