In this episode, Eileen McCotter Davies shares her wisdom and experience of Self-Sabotage and explains how she realised she was self-sabotaging, how she trained to help herself and others overcome Self-Sabotage, how people sabotage their health, relationships and finances and shares how she helps people overcome their Self-Sabotaging behaviours so they can lead a healthy fun-filled, fulfilling and happy life.
Eileen's personal story of Self Sabotage [3:20]
What if part of me is self-sabotaging? [6:22]
What is self-sabotage? [8:40]
The 4 levels of consciousness [29:15]
What is an illness currency? [44:09]
How to recognise when you're self-sabotaging [47:15]
Can you overcome self-sabotage without the help of a a coach? [52:00]
Eileen is offering her free webinar, "Confessions of a Saboteur" to The Radical Health Rebel listeners. Email Eileen to request access @ eileen@coaching with eileen.com
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Check out Eileen's Facebook Group, "Be Your Own Mindset Ninja"
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Eileen: And then emotionally, they could get triggered. They could feel not appreciated by their family at home. They could feel not valued at work, and we don't know when we're going to be emotionally triggered by something. And that's when the saboteur will go, I don't feel enough. I need to feel better. And that's when the Sabbath or instant gratification. So in health, you could say, what's instant gratification? Sugar cake. Chocolate. The sun. It's kebab. Cheese. Wine. Alcohol.
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast with your host, Leigh Brandon. If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a five-star rating and the warm review. Your opinions are important, and your ratings help grow the podcast and help educate people to lead a healthier, more productive, fulfilling, and happy life. This video is your thing. Please check out the Radical Health Rebel YouTube channel, where you'll find Fun bite sized clips from each episode. And now here is Lee, the Radical Health Rebel with this week's podcast.
Leigh: OK. Eileen McCottere Davis. Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast.
Leigh: How are you doing?
Eileen: Yeah, I'm really good. Just come back from a holiday, so I am buzzing, well rested, and full of energy.
Leigh: Fantastic. So today's episode is entitled how to Overcome Self Sabotage.
Leigh: So self-sabotage for me, without question, is something that we've all suffered from in our lives at some point or another. And self-sabotage is certainly something that I've experienced myself and something that I see regularly in my own clients. And it can be very destructive in people's lives and prevent them from achieving what they really want from life. Anyone wanting to overcome a health challenge or to optimize their health and performance can easily be railroaded by self-sabotage. So, I'm really excited to be having this discussion with you today, Eileen, but before we get started, what I'd love you to do is to tell me about you, your upbringing, your journey, and your experiences that has led you to where you are today. Talking to me on the radical Health Rebel podcast.
Eileen: Wow. Jesus, that's a big question. So, my upbringing, Irish family, that means a house of loads of kids because mom and dad didn't have a TV, so instead they made children, was the joke family. And that probably led me into doing physical activity, a lot of energy as a kid and kind of did okay with sports at school, but then got into, like, personal training and then all the check stuff. That's where I met you, Lee, on, I think it was HFC one, and then we did two.
Leigh: That's right, 18 years ago, 18 years ago. And we don’t even Welook old enough, Eileen.
Eileen: We must have started when we were three. I'm 21, I feel, too, after a week's holiday. So yeah, so I think I obviously started the CHEK stuff, and that kind of led me into more holistic approach to lifestyle, et cetera. And I have personal training, and I was giving people phenomenal fitness and nutrition plans towards their metabolic type, et cetera, and exercises, all the functional exercises. And then people weren't doing it, and I was like, oh. So, I kind of noticed that was going on in my professional career, you could say, as a trainer. Then in my personal relationship. I couldn't get my relationship to work with my daughter's dad at the time. And I didn't know at the time I was trying to turn a circle into a square. So, I kind of went on this personal development journey. I started to question myself a lot. I remember one time just looking out of the window of my house. My daughter was only small at the time. I know three or four lying in my bed. And I just looked out the window one night and thought, you know, I can't get out of this situation that I'm in. I couldn't see a way out. And my relationship, it would be on, it would be off, it would be on, it would be off. And it was really soul destroying because emotionally, I was high, I was low, I was high, I was low. And at the same time, I was a single parent. I was trying to cope with life, cope with work. So, I flew to Canada to do a course all on meridians and with the body and energy work in the body. And I walked into this class, and I was the only English person. And I walked in, and this guy, his name was John, but he for me, looked like Father Christmas. And I went, oh, my God. I've turned up to a workshop in Canada with a guard that looks like Father Christopher did all this meridian malarkey and energy, and he said picked me out. He went, Your heart chakra is blocked. There's no energy coming from your heart. So, he pulled me up to the front of the room, and he said a sentence to me. He kind of said, what if you teach men how to treat you? And I was like, what? And at that point, before that point, I was being a victim. I was like, I've been hurt. Men hurt me. Why do men hurt me? Why can't I have a great relationship? What's wrong with me? And I was being a victim. And he said, yeah, what if you teach men how to treat you? And at this point, my partner had an affair, and I told this coach to **** off. Can you swear on this podcast?
Leigh: You can!
Eileen: All good. F off. There you go. And I walked out of this room and in a stomach kind of going he said, You've been a victim. Didn't like hearing that. And I walked out of the room, and then I realized I had no keys. Get to my hotel. My bag and everything was in the room and had no so I had to walk back in. I walked back in, and they're American. So guess what they all do? They all start clapping. But I didn't walk back in to join back in and walk back in to get my bag. They're all clapping. Oh, my God, we love your brain courage. And I was like and that's when I learned this concept of self-sabotage. What if there was a part of me that was sabotaging my relationships? So I came home that day and I hated that question because I was in blaming everyone else for blaming my daughter's dad for my unhappiness. I was doing that for quite some time. I really hated that question. What if there is a part of me sabotaging my ability to love and receive love? So, I remained angry for a while. I continued trying to turn the circuit into a square. And then I really sat with myself and researched, kept going back to America and really learn about saboteur and how come there was a part of me that pushed away love. And then what happened? Kept going back for myself. I was intrigued. I was kind of obsessed about the human mind and the psyche because I never knew what any of that was. And then I started to bring some of these sabotage concepts to my personal training clients. And then I kind of got known very quickly that Eileen is the person that can really help someone. That was stuck. And then all personal training starts referring clients to me. That was stuck. And often these people had a lot of emotional things they were dealing with that were just being pushed to one side. And that was the reason why they couldn't stick to the diet or they couldn't stick to the health and fitness program. And then ten years, 15 years on, I now coach people from all walks of life, from entrepreneurs to grow their business, teenagers with the pressures of A levels, couples with communication challenges, career women trying to balance their emotions in a male dominated pressured area of business, etc. E, and I just love it. Can't get enough of it. So, yeah, it's been quite a journey. And I'm still on that journey myself.
Leigh: Absolutely. As we all are, right?
Eileen: Yeah, we certainly are.
Leigh: Great. So, to the people listening right now or watching, how would you define self-sabotage?
Eileen: Great question. Well, I would define it as a feeling first. For many people, they might feel it where it feels like you're taking a step forward and then you're taking two steps back, or you kind of feel like you're going around in circles, that you keep repeating the same thing. You kind of know that you're doing it, but you're not aware that you're doing it. So it's kind of, for many people are feeling like they make progress, and then it kind of slips out of their hands and then the progress stops. So that's how many people kind of feel it. Some people just feel stuck. They get going again, and then they feel stuck again. So, for many, it's a feeling rather than something that they think that makes sense. How I would describe it in Words With Self Sabotage, if there is a part of you that wants to sabotage your goals, I've noticed, and I've been doing sabotage coaching, like I said, for over 15 years, in every human being, I think there is an inner Saboteur. And that inner Saboteur either sabotages somebody's relationships, so their ability to receive intimate love and give intimate love, or it's with their body shape. So, it could be their body confidence or their ability to increase weight or decrease weight in the body, or it could be financially, their ability to hold on to money, respect money, receive money, or gain money. They kind of like just get money and it slips out of their fingers. So, whoever I work with, it's normally relationships, it's career in finance, worth or body shape and confidence, just to kind.
Leigh: Of summarize what you've just said. So correct me if I'm wrong, but basically sabotage or self-sabotage is when someone wants a particular goal, but for whatever reason, they put obstacles in their own way that stops them from achieving that goal.
Eileen: Absolutely. Yeah. Because there's a part of them that doesn't want what the goal represents. So, what I mean by that, like, people used to come to me back in the day and I'd be like, hi, I'm a trainer. What do you want? I want to be slim. And I'll be like, cool, let's give you a workout. And no wonder they didn't get the result of their outcome. And then it was like, okay, so what would being slim mean to you? What would that represent? And then they would go, oh, that would mean I'd have confidence. Silence. Cool. Does all of you want confidence? And then they'd kind of go, oh, no. If part of me is confident, what would other people think? How do I fit into my family if I'm healthy, slim, confident, sexy, rich. So often with the Saboteur, there's that inner conflict. That's why it feels like a push and pull feeling. And that's what I was doing in my personal romantic life. I wanted a man, I get one. And then I'd push away the love. And then when they took the love away from me, I would run after it. And when they turn around and give it to me, I'd push it away. And the people I was attracting were mirroring that as well. So many of us struggle to receive to truly receive love. Many of us struggle to truly receive money without being conditional. Many of us struggle to receive compliments. You're beautiful. You're so skilled at what you do.
Leigh: Thank you.
Eileen: Yeah, you are beautiful. Thank you. There's a part of us that kind of struggle to totally receive that. So, the Saboteur kind of goes, don't worry. This is the thing most people get about sabotage. They often see south sabotage as a bad thing. For me, that is incorrect. But in a saboteur for me is an indicator to show you that you're out of balance. There's something that an internal part of you need. And until you find a way to give that internal part of you what that part needs, then sabotage. Repeats, repeats, repeats, repeats. So, can I give you a little example of that? So, without me knowing absolutely. I used to go out with guys and without me knowing this consciously, there was a part of me that wanted men or needed men to validate me. So, I needed men to go, I think you're beautiful, you're amazing, you're fantastic. And a part of me was like, does that mean that I'm enough? Does that mean that I'm enough? When they'd say it? And the guy would say it for a while, especially at the beginning of a relationship, there's a lot of seduction, there's a lot of infatuation and lust. So, I would get it at the beginning of a relationship, and then when they stop affirming me and validating me, an inner part of me will feel not enough. Then she would sabotage as a way to protect me. So then guess what I do? I'll find the next man. Repeat the same behaviour, find the next man. By the way, I sound like I had thousands of men. I'm talking about ten years. And then I started to notice this can't be about men. Because in the end I was like, oh, men are knobs. That is not true. That is not true. And then I went, I've got to change something in me. And that's when what the little girl in me needed, she needed to be validated and affirmed by me. So then if men give me it or don't give me it, I feel enough. That makes sense.
Leigh: Yeah. So, it's coming from within rather than from the outside.
Eileen: Yes. And if you look at most people in a society, we are highly addicted I don't know the word addicted attached to. I'll do that diet that will make me slim. This is my business. I'll do that marketing program. That plan will make me grow my business. I will do that money making scheme. That money making scheme will give me safety and security. Unfortunately, it can for a little while, but when that stops, then we go back to fear and shame. So we have to deal with what's internally going on. And that's the challenge most people. And after that, we go from one program to the next program to the next program, looking for the thing, when really you've got to help the inner saboteur. What does that part of you need? And then what is magic? The inner Saboteur. We've got to teach the inner Sabbath or to work with us. And that's when I kind of say the sentence to teach that part of our brain to be our friend. Because sabotage is a protection mechanism. If you stay weighty, you don't have to receive a compliment. If you stay poor or lacking money, then you don't have to deal with judgments from other people, if that makes sense. If you sabotage yourself with love, then you can't get hurt. So it's kind of like a form of protection, but it's a pain in the ***.
Leigh: It's painful, and I would guess tell me if I'm wrong, but most of these aspects of us that cause us to sabotage almost always come from something in our childhood.
Eileen: Yeah, absolutely. That's been my experience. And it's normally, it doesn't have to be like a deep trauma. It doesn't have to be sometimes out there, it's like you've got to look at your trauma, look at your wounds go deep sometimes. It doesn't have to be like that. It could just be a belief or an experience the brain has, and from that, it just keeps repeating it, if that makes sense.
Leigh: So, just to kind of paraphrase, something that kind of stood out when you were speaking, is that when someone sabotages themselves at maybe a subconscious level, it's a way of protecting themselves from getting hurt?
Leigh: So, to put another way, it's almost a fear of stepping out of your comfort zone.
Eileen: Yes. And it's a fear of stepping out of what you've not received before unconditional love, compliments that you are enough. Or if you look at money worth, like most little kids, we either got money because we did chores around the house it was conditional. Or we got money if we believed that we were good or we didn't get money. So then we made up stories we didn't deserve. Like, I have a story that I wanted a chopper bike. You're probably the same age as me that they were, those chopper bikes.
Leigh: I remember the chopper bike.
Eileen: Yeah, neighbour, the chopper bike.
Leigh: I had a tomahawk.
Eileen: You were minted. You were a spoiled kid.
Leigh: No, that was just a smaller version.
Eileen: That was a small version. But I didn't have that. I was like, I wanted Chopper a bike. And my dad got me a bike frame, sprayed it yellow. The handlebars were red, and the seat was green. I mean, I just looked like super bright kid going down the entryway in this bike. So, my brain might have made up a story. I don't deserve anything new. Rather than my dad probably putting more effort, more time creating this bike for me. But obviously, people don't verbalize and communicate what we really feel. If he kind of said to me, Eileen, you deserve to have the best and to have a chopper, that this is what I can give you at this time. I'm giving you this. It's not matched to your worth. But we don't so then our brain makes up stories. I'm second I don't deserve that all that sort of stuff.
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Eileen: That's why I see people. They're phenomenal at business, they're phenomenal at creating money, they're having intimate connections with people, they hide, they put walls so they can't be vulnerable.
Leigh: So just thinking of it, you've given some really fantastic examples, but thinking of it from a health point of view yeah. Do you have any specific examples that you could share when it comes to sabotaging your own health?
Eileen: Yeah, absolutely low. So, from a nutritional point of view, what I've noticed a lot of people do is they'll go, that's it, it's Monday, I'm changing, or January the first. Or people will say sentences, I'm going to eat healthy next week. It's all inclusive on this holiday, I'm going with it, it's free, and all that sort of stuff, or even paid for it, and then, that's it. Next week. I'm going for it. And then the challenges with that is they start off with a plan in their head, and often the plan of what they want to execute. The expectations are too high, because on the Monday they go, that's it, I'm going to the gym three times this week. I'm going to drink water, I'm going to prep my food, I'm going to do this, that and the other. So, the list of expectations they put on their shoulders are too much. And then what happens is they do their best to follow that plan and then emotionally, they could get triggered, they could feel not appreciated by their family at home, they could feel not valued at work, and we don't know when we're going to be emotionally triggered by something. And that's when the saboteur will go, I don't feel enough, I need to feel better. And that's when the saboteur loves instant gratification. So, in health, you could say, what's instant gratification? Sugar cake, chocolate. For some, it's kebab, cheese, wine, alcohol. And then what will happen? A client will go, They've been eating healthy, they've been really doing well. They'll have one blip, like 1 bar of chocolate. And back in the day, when you used to do a lot of health sabotage, my client would go, But, Eileen, but you don't know what I ate yesterday. I was like, Come in, share it with me. But I had a Mars Bar and I knew I shouldn't. And their brain then will just focus on the one thing they did wrong. That's the saboteur, and it will hold on to that. And then the brain goes, Well, I've blown it now. And that's when you see people go, oh, wow, I'll start again next week. And they just eat, drink, everything. So, I see that cycle often. And often what I see is the person at the very beginning of wanting to change their house has set too many expectations. They've set themselves up to fail. And the crafty saboteur is just waiting for one little glinch and then it like, jumps in.
Leigh: Yeah. One of the things that I've seen a lot in my own practice is someone will come to me and they've got a specific health challenge and obviously I go through with them and help them determine specific goal that they want to achieve and they start on the program and they start doing really well. But then what often happens is the people around them don't like the fact that they're now taking responsibility for themselves and almost do everything to encourage them to not follow the program. What would be your kind of view on that situation? How does that occur and perhaps how would you deal with that situation as a coach?
Eileen: Yeah, great question. Well, often before I ever start with somebody, especially if they're going to do quite they want to create quite a big change or shift for themselves, whether that's financially with a business change of career or if it's like a body house or if it's even a relationship. Like it could be a male or a female that have been single for a while out with a lad to their girlfriends and they want to go out dating. They're pulling away from the group. So it's kind of like someone's improving themselves. And the challenge is when you start to improve yourself, other people around you might feel not needed. That's when it could trigger their abandonment or insecurities. So often before I take them down the road of change, I say, okay, because all behaviours are predictable. Let's look at what could be a behaviour that could happen. When your confidence increases, you start to voice how you feel more because that happens with the confidence increase. When you start to put in boundaries and say, I'm coming out with your girls, but I'm okay. I'm not drinking. I'm all right on water. And they go, what's wrong with you? And you start to be able to stand your ground and stay with your choices. I kind of get them to deal with those scenarios and that's when mature communication comes in. So, they either need to communicate to the husband or the wife or their friends because loved ones around you, when you start to grow and evolve, they ultimately just don't want to be left behind. So that's when the person that's changing can just turn to the loved one and say, you are so important to me. You mean the world to me. However, me working on me doesn't mean I'm going anywhere. Just means I want a better version of me to be there with you. And often when another person feels that they're important too. On the change process. They kind of might go on the process with you more. There are times though, there's a consequence of change that when you grow into who you want to be, you grow into the body shape you know, you truly want to have money or relationship people may not be in your life as they once were and that's a consequence of change. And again, I always address that before I work with someone.
Leigh: Got you. So, what you do is you change.
Eileen: Is going to be amazing. Change is fantastic. And I'm like, no, change will create confidence and let's address that now.
Leigh: So, what you do is from the beginning, you look at, okay, so what will the positive aspects be of creating these changes? But then also what might the negative aspects be of these changes?
Leigh: And looking at the positives and the negatives, is this what you really want?
Leigh: That's pretty much the process that you go through.
Eileen: Yeah. For me, I'll work on four levels of consciousness just briefly. So, there's the literal round. So, a client will come and go, I want to lose two stone or I want to move my body again. If I had back pain, for example, then I'll take it to the metaphoric realm. They don't really want that, they want what that will give them. So, what would that mean to you then we just mentioned, is the power docs your realm? What's the benefit? And the negative aspects of this change. And once they address both sides of that fence, then you can take them to the creative realm. And the creative realm is kind of like solution. Okay. So, if you start to grow and like who you are, this is what happened to me when I started to approve of I lean more rather than leaning on my friends or leaning on men. I lost the best friend in the process because I needed her to tell me, you're amazing, you're fantastic. And when I started to do it for myself, our relationship had to change. So, yeah, without a doubt, you then can look at the creative round. What's the solution if that challenge comes up during the change process? So, then all are kind of equipped with it and they kind of know that might happen. So, it's not a shock.
Leigh: Yeah. So, it's planning ahead for the obstacles before they arise, basically.
Eileen: Absolutely. Yeah.
Leigh: So, can you perhaps give an example of maybe it's one individual, maybe it's a group that are similar but may not even be any but do you have an example of like the worst client that sabotage the most and what kind of journey did they kind of.
Eileen: Have to go on and they've come out the other side of it or.
Leigh: They’re still either yeah.
Eileen: So, one client, they were holding on to a lot of weight and they were certainly sabotaging themselves with food secret emotional eating. And that's giving. The inner saboteur. Some comfort. That's also giving the inner child instant gratification and comfort. So, they were doing a lot of that. And when I entered this person's life, they kind of wanted me for nutrition and personal training, like, tell me what to exercise, tell me what to eat. And I was like, no, let's look at what you're going through, what your life is like. And then they share the challenges of their marriage, then they shared their challenges of their culture. And it's very ingrained culturally, the loyalty of how a female should be, they should get married, similar culture, et cetera. And this particular person was holding loads of emotions, like years of emotional baggage. So they needed some work for, I'd say, two to three years. I worked with them intensely, but it was every area of their life. They came out of the marriage, lost the weight, lost three and a half, four stone, kept it off and now has gone into that south car, south love, verbalizing, if that makes sense, still having challenges with relationships, but just because this particular person is so over-giving and continually giving, every time she meets a partnership, gives so much, then she teaches people to take. But now, again, I can see her working on that, which is like, no, I need to put some boundaries in here, if that makes sense. So, for some people, the Saboteur is very strong and dominant because they have quite a lot of Deep South clothing. But for some people, it can take a good decade to work it through. And for some people, it can just be a few tweaks, if that makes sense.
Leigh: Yeah, it's interesting. As you were talking then, and I thought you were going to say it can take a lifetime. I was actually thinking, do you have any views on whether self-sabotage can come from previous lifetimes?
Eileen: Great question. Yeah. I think some energies come into this realm with past stuff. I might have past wounds and traumas of receiving, because the Saboteur struggles to receive, not truly receive. So, think some people can bring that in. Some people can have that experience by being in their mother's womb, where they felt the energy of a parent walk away or not be close to them. And for some people, it can be during their early years of life where they felt they weren't worth something, worth the compliment, worth the money, worth love. And the Saboteur kind of holds on to that fear and shame, like I said before, like a kind of protective mechanism. Interesting loyalty of, say, you're not enough, you're enough in that area and that area, but not that area.
Leigh: Yes. One of the things that I learned from you was a bit about “a part of me”, and I found that really useful working with my own clients. People say I'm this, I'm that. And they say, well, is that all of you? Or is it just a part of you. And you just see light bulbs coming on just by using a few small little words. It's like, yeah, it's not all of me. It's just a part of me. It's really powerful, absolutely powerful, because we.
Eileen: Can kind of go, okay, what is the part of you that wants you to stay small, safe, or with what? You know, what is the part of you that wants to moan and complain or beat yourself up or believe you're not enough? Let's just look at that part. And then what happens in the brain? These other parts of us can come and support that part, so then we have that internal kind of support. If not, we rely on external all the time.
Leigh: I know one of the things I've done workshops with you and John in the past. Can you talk a little bit about as children where we get gratification from?
Eileen: Yeah. Many of us quite young. If you look at an ego or the brain, an ego brain, you can see it in a toddler. By the age of two, most toddlers favourite word is what?
Leigh: Two? I would imagine it's probably something like, I want.
Eileen: I would have thought, yeah, it's either I want or it's not.
Leigh: Or Why?
Eileen: Yeah. Or they go, no. So, with the little grandson, I was like, let's have a bath. No. And then eventually get him in the bath. Let's get you out of the bath. No. So normally that's when the brain starts to pull away from itself, where it wants its own sense of power, it tries to pull away from itself. And that's why most two-year-old toddlers rule the house. Like, little kids have got a lot of power, and it's like a battle of the wheels with their parents. It's like a power game. They're not fully conscious of it. It's like a little power game. Then what happens is this kind of brain then goes, okay, so I'm not getting the power. How can I get the power? And then we quickly, without we know it, we fall into being a good girl or a good little boy by the age of two, three or four, and what that will look like. Theo in six, I pulled down the dishwasher. Nanny, can I put the tablet in the dishwasher? I'm picking up logs for my fire burner, nanny. I'll pick up the logs, and he's always wanting to help me, and I naturally go, oh, thank you, Theo. That's so nice of you. Thank you, Theo. That's so nice of you. And what happens then is little kids, we then go, I matter because of what I do. So we quickly fall into this pattern of, because I'm a good girl, that means I matter. And then we quickly then think we're only good if we're doing stuff. So, I can only earn a lot of money if I do a lot of work. Yeah, people only like me if I give them a lot in a relationship, like, a man or woman will only love me if I do a lot for them and make them happy. Because as kids, very young kids, especially 2345, we fitted in the family by being compliant. We fitted in the family by being a good boy or a good little girl, like, Daddy's sleeping, oh, be quiet. Don't wait Daddy up, or little scenarios like that. When we were kids. Then what happens as we get a bit older? We kind of might not get the approval anymore, because Mum and dad just get I do with Theo. I just get used to him helping me now I expect it of him. So, I stopped giving him the approval. And then a little brain goes, I want attention. I'm not getting attention by being good. I might as well do something naughty. I get more attention by not making my bed than I do by making my bed. And that actually leads very closely to the saboteur, because if you look at the inner saboteur, it's a form of negative attention to south. So let me explain that you're going along on the diet and the healthy eating movement plan. You're feeling good. You're like? Yeah, I'm feeling good. Oh, my God. I'm looking good. And people are like, Lee, you look wow. Oh my God, your skin is looking more radiant. You're like? Yeah, it is. And then you have a little blip emotionally, you get triggered. Then the saboteur, you go, oh, my God, I shouldn't have done that. Oh, my God. And then you start to go, I'm bad, and I shouldn't have done that. If I was strong, I wouldn't have done that. Then you give yourself negative attention, because most of us, when we were kids, we experienced, we got more attention by being naughty, negative, challenging the boundaries than what we did when we were a good boy or girl, because the more it's a word gooder, the more good we were. It becomes a norm. Does that make sense? And that's when I work with people, when I look at their compliance and defiant behaviour. So compliant behaviour is sticking to the diet, going to the gym, defiant behaviour is sabotaging that. And then as soon as we one blip, we go, oh, my God. All the judgment, all the beating up comes in. I hope that answers your question. I didn't go off a little bit.
Leigh: Yeah, definitely. And what's interesting just to add to that, is as little children, we do good things to get attention. We do bad things to get attention. We get praise if we follow the rules, but we get told off if we don't follow the rules. And then that continues throughout school, and then you get a job, and that continues at work because you want to do a good job, because you want to keep your job, you want to get paid and we're almost from cradle to grave. We're stuck in that reality and that.
Eileen: Continues in relationship between two people then that's even in parenting. Like I would 1 minute tell my daughter off and then I'm like, oh my God, I feel really bad for turning her off. And they'll be like, oh Tiana, should we go to cinema? Then I'll do everything to make it better. So, children are confused and then we grow up. We're still confused.
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Leigh: Just a brief interruption to this podcast to talk about adult acne. Now, did you know that 40% to 54% of men and women older than 25 years will have some degree of facial acne? And that clinical facial acne persists into middle age in 12% of women and 3% of men? I know only too well the devastating effects that acne can have on your confidence and your self-esteem and how it can easily destroy your social life, your career and your relationships. I know this only too well because I suffered from severe cystic acne from age 13 to 31 over an 18-year period. I visited my doctor on many occasions and his only suggestions were acne creams, harsh cleansers and antibiotics that weren't working and were actually making my skin worse. After 18 years of struggle and thousands of pounds invested in treatments that didn't work, through my professional education, I began to learn that what my doctor had told me was untrue and that diet was directly related to acne plus other factors such as food sensitivities, toxicity, hormones, and balancing the body's microbiome. Putting what I had learned into practice. I managed to rid myself of acne over 20 years ago and have been helping others to do the same for well over a decade by teaching people what foods cause acne. What food sensitivities each individual has. How to optimize their detox pathways. How to reduce environmental stresses and toxins. And how to balance hormones. Especially those related to the mTOR pathway. A major causal factor with acne. I've been able to help many other adults overcome their acne nightmare too. So, if you would like more information on how to overcome your adult acne, please go to www.skinwebinar.com. That's www.skinwebinar.com, where you can also request an Acne breakthrough. Call with me to see if you are suitable for my Eliminate Adult Acne Coaching program, where you can once and for all learn how to overcome your adult acne. Now back to the podcast.
Leigh: When you were speaking then, what came to my mind also was people that have an illness currency. You're familiar with that term, right?
Leigh: Okay, well, it's pretty much what you just described, but specific to health. So, an illness currency is when someone was a child and they didn't probably get as much attention as they would have liked as a child, but what they realized was that when they were sick, all of a sudden they got all the attention.
Eileen: Ah right?
Leigh: So, then their subconscious mind gets programmed to believe that the way to get attention is to be sick. And then they become an adult and they'll come to see someone like myself or you and say, I've got this problem, fix it for me. But actually, if you don't get to that subconscious belief that they actually want to be sick because they believe at subconscious level, that's the way to get attention or let's give it another word, love, the last thing that they're going to actually want to do is to get well, because as you know, around 95% to 99% of our behaviours are created subconsciously. Right. So, it seems to me what you've said today is that an illness currency is just another form of the Saboteur.
Eileen: Yeah. And another name for it as well is the martyr archetype. What if all human beings are martyrs? And what do we mean by that? What if all human beings like you say, get more attention by suffering? And it's funny you mentioned about illness currency. A few months ago, I did a workshop. There was about 42 people there, and I actually said to them, how many of you, when you were younger, when you were sick, stay off school, you got noticed. And I think 38 people in the room put their hands up and they went, oh, my God. A few people then started to share stories that yeah, do you know what? I used to get sick, like fake being sick, because then I got my mom's attention. And that's what I see with people in their health routine. We put on weight or whatever, or we say, we're not going to drink alcohol than we do slip on the bandwagon. And it's a way that part of us gives another part of us negative attention. And that part goes, yeah, I'm the winner.
Leigh: So, my next question is if we put ourselves in the shoes of people that are watching or listening to this episode, and they don't have the knowledge that you have, let's say, but how might they recognize parts of their own life that they're Sabotaging? Because I would guess most people just wouldn't even know that they're Sabotaging. Right?
Leigh: So, is there a way that people can actually recognize when they're self-sabotaging?
Eileen: Yeah, normally, pain or another way of saying that people have to get sick and tired. Often people refer people to me or I'll start working on someone. You need to work with my husband, he's a Saboteur. You need to work with my son. And I have the first question I ask, are they aware they are Sabotaging? If they say no, then they're not ready because the brain is still in denial. So step one, a person has to have pain and discomfort, and they have to get to that level where they go I am friggin sick and tired of this. And that's what changed me. I was taking my partner back. We're okay for a while, then we weren't okay. Then we're back on. I felt like an idiot saying to my mates, I'm with him. No, I'm not with him. And I started to then hide and all these other behaviours. I started to eat sugar, then all these other behaviours from that because I was lying to myself, lying to other people. So, you've got to get to that point when you're sick and tired of the pattern, and normally pain gives you that when you kind of go and fed up with this. And then when somebody is sick and tired of and they can see their pattern, they can see it very clearly, they go, I know I'm doing it, Eileen, but I don't know how to stop it. If somebody's there, then you can work with them. If they're not there, then you have to leave them where they are, because I call it disassociated. They're numbed out. People can't see what they can't see until they're ready to see it. But normally, pain or discomfort, people go, have had enough of this. And that's. When people start typing in Google, looking for books or they're looking for a course or they're looking for a coach, but they have to personally wake up to, I'm sick and tired of this, and then change can happen. That's been my experience anyway.
Leigh: Yeah, great answer for people watching and listening. If they're in that position at home where they're in pain, possibly even tried lots of things right, and nothing's worked. I've had many a client come to me, and they've seen 10, 15, 20 practitioners before they got to me, and it's like, well, they've done these diets and they've done these exercises, and they've had this treatment, and none of it has made any difference. It's like, well, that's not your problem. What between your ears is the problem. Perhaps people listening and watching. If they're in pain and if they're fed up with it, then they possibly need to consider that they could be self-sabotaging.
Eileen: Yes, absolutely. And then from that, they want to then apply we say the word kindness, but people just say these words. But we have to then find a way to apply kindness and then go, okay, part of me is sabotaging myself. I don't like it. It's horrible. It does my head in. It's not nice. It's uncomfortable. And another part of me wants to help me get out of that. And that's when a coach comes along and can help those two parts work together. Is south sabotage a quick fix? No. Does south sabotage go away? No. Because it still serves you as a protection mechanism in life. Can we lessen the impact and the pain of the saboteur? Oh, yes. So that's kind of like what I will help people work through.
Leigh: Got you. So let's say someone recognizes their self-sabotaging, in your opinion? I think I know what you're going to say. Is there a way that people can do it without coaching?
Eileen: I think they can do a certain amount, absolutely. Where there's so much material out there at the moment, there's so much resources where they can go and read and invest and look at giving them self care and positive attention. For sure. They could possibly. What I get clients to do at first is just to write down their cycle, write down the pattern, because the saboteur has a very clear, distinctive pattern that just repeats it's like a loop so they could try and sit on their selves. I'm all about self-empowerment. I'm all about not everyone has the financial investment to invest in a coach. So if they don't, then you can sit and look at your own pattern and kind of write it down and kind of go, okay, I can see the pattern where's the part that I can change that can certainly work for some. My experience for most is when we need another person involved, because the Saboteur is crafty little ******. It's crafty. It sneaks when you don't know when everything's going great and glossy and you're in your business and you've done all the work and you're just about to jump over the line and get new clients when the saboteur kicks off, or the same with the diet or loving a date or whatever, it's crafty. So that's when you need for me, an outside person, because they don't have the emotions, they don't have the emotional involvement, because you're kind of in your story. So it's hard for you to see a new perspective because you're so in the story, if that makes sense.
Leigh: Absolutely does, yeah.
Eileen: So, I was like, you know, I'm sabotaging myself. Oh, I'm pushing away, love. Why would I do that? Silly cow. I want to be loved. Then I was like, oh. Part of me is made up a story that my dad didn't love me because as a little girl, every time I sat on his lap, he kind of pushed me away. I was always wanting attention of Daddy, how I got attention of Daddy. He would fight with me, like with box, and he'd do those arm burns on my hand. So that kind of model to me that you fight with guys, so I'd fight with guys. And then once I realized, actually I'm looking for validation, I'm looking for acknowledgment, then I could just give myself acknowledgment. But I needed an outside person to kind of say to me, what if you turn all men into being your dad? I would have never worked that out on my own. And then that was like, what if I do what if I do everything to please men? And when I'm don't feel that I please them, then I feel like it's my fault. Or if a bloat doesn't notice me like you've never I don't know, maybe you've had a life as a womanly. I don't know if you've ever dressed up in a dress with a pair of stilettos.
Leigh: I can't remember. I probably have in a previous life, but I certainly don't remember it.
Eileen: But us women I'm not talking on all women, you get dressed up, there's a little girl in every woman, there's a little girl who wanted father's attention. In every little boy, in every man, there's a little boy that wanted to feel enough and equal to his dad rather than compete with his dad. And he wanted to feel it was enough to make Mummy happy. And I see that time and time again. So there's times whereas women get dressed up, you walk down the stairs and I've got all the clobber on and the hair's done and the lippy is on and you walk down, I'm like, yeah. And I'm like I just hope he tells me I look great. I just hope he tells me I look great. And when you don't hear it, you feel well, I used to feel demoralized or dismissed or should I change my dress or is it me? But now, when I get dressed, I'm like this in the mirror. Wow, you look good, girl. I'm validating me because I've now worked on that part of my brain. It's like a muscle in the brain that now notices and affirms eyeline. All of the time. No, but most of the time now, yes, if that makes sense. So that's when you need somebody outside of south to challenge your thoughts and your perceptions.
Leigh: Yeah. I mean, another way of putting that in, not such a nice way, is you need someone to call out your BS. Basically, yeah.
Eileen: I mean, people actually do call me that. They call me I mean, clients swear at me a lot or they'll come to my workshops and they'll go, you have just done my friggin heading. If I had a textbook like the other day, I'm going to share this with you. I thought it was absolutely classic, obviously with no names, but it had me howling. You remind me of a bad medicine. It tastes nasty.
Leigh: Perfect. Perfect.
Eileen: And when I go back to my journey of South Saboteur, I needed the outside coach to say, Eileen, what if you teach men to walk over you? And I did, because I was the over giver, but I couldn't see that myself because I was bought up. Be nice to people, be helpful.
Leigh: Yeah, I see the over giver a lot in females. Well, say females mothers. So women that are mothers, I see that a lot, that they're often over givers and they often give so much of themselves away, there's nothing left for them. And that's why they come to see me, because they're sick, because they've given everything away to everyone else. They don't matter. I've actually had one lady sitting in a consultation room with me crying. And I said, Why are you crying? And she said, I can't believe I've taken time out for myself.
Leigh: Right. She said, I should be doing something for my kids. And I'm like, well, don't you think the best version of you is the best mother for your children? She was like, I hadn't thought of it like that.
Eileen: Yeah, right.
Leigh: And the other thing that I've also noticed is it tends to be particularly Catholic women, mothers that often feel that way. Yeah, that's been my experience. Which, of course, is your upbringing, too, right?
Eileen: Yeah, absolutely. Because, again, it could be. And not just Catholic. I've seen it in many a lot of Asian culture and a lot of cultures, Christianity, whatever, where it's about serving, sharing, giving, which is great traits, but it's when it's a detriment of south and similar to you, I've coached a lot of men who feel it's their job. Like they'll say, I just feel like I can never meet my wife's expectations. I just feel like I never meet my female boss’ expectations. Because as a little boy, their experiences, they couldn't make Mummy happy. They thought it was their responsibility to make Mommy happy. And here's a little story about a year ago now thinks Theo was five or something, and we were sitting around the dinner table, and when you observe behaviour, you see it. We're all sitting around the dinner table, and Tiana got a phone call. And Tiana's, English, Irish and Caribbean. She's quite an animated character. She gets a phone call from a friend, and we're at the dinner table. We're all laughing, joking, talking. She's like, oh, no way. Oh, my God. That's awful. And she's like this on the phone line in table. Her whole energies changed into sadness. Theo. I looked at Theo, and he just froze. And he looked at his mom. She got off the phone, and she looked upset because obviously a friend was sharing something that happened, and he went, mom. And he went and straight away, he laughed and smiled to try and make her feel better. How many men, little boys, use jokes as a way to try and make someone feel better? So, I see that a lot when I work with guys that they're dealing with that emotionally can affect their business, or they'll deal with it by numbing it out, but then their drink has gone up or their food intake has changed, et cetera. All their pain in their back or their hips has gone tight. It's fascinating.
Leigh: This has been an amazing, fantastic interview. I'm sure people have got masses from it. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Eileen: No. Well, I've got lots of recordings, Mindset recordings, because during Covet, I found when people were struggling, I just made a small 90-minutes Mindset Masterclasses Audios, and I charged a tiny fee at the time for them, and I've got, like, a big library off them. But if anybody that's listening into this wants a copy of my Confessions of a Saboteur, you can have it complimentary. That's not me being an over giver.
Leigh: That's fantastic.
Eileen: Just really wanted to give society so they can just message me and say, I'm part of Lee's, I'm a listener. You can email me at Aileen@coachingwithillen.com, and I can fly that over to you. It's got an exercise in it that you can follow at home and all work on it with somebody that you know and trust that might have somebody.
Leigh: Out, someone that will call out your BS, ideally.
Eileen: Yeah. And I think you'll even listen to me people on it. So you'll see me in action.
Leigh: So, what I'll do is I'll pop your email address in the show notes.
Eileen: Yeah, absolutely.
Leigh: So what's next for Eileen?
Eileen: What's next for Eileen? Gosh, who knows? Hey, I love the sentence man plans and God lapse or the universe lapse. So, who next? I know that on a daily basis, often chatting to the universe and to say, help me to be the messenger of how to be truly kinder to self. For me, most people don't know how to be compassionate to all parts of their character, so I want to be the messenger of that. So hopefully I get to do more of that and share more of that. That's my reason for being on this podcast today. If it can support somebody who is struggling or stuck or not believing in who they truly are, then I think it's my life's purpose, really.
Leigh: Fantastic. And where can people find you? Online?
Eileen: I tinker a little bit on social media. Social media? Yes. You can find me on Instagram. I'm just starting to appear on Instagram, so that's Coaching with Eileen. I have a Facebook page called Be Your Own Mindset. Ninja. I have a website also called Coaching with Eileen. Very narcissistic. Or this coaching with Aileen. So, yeah, you can get me on there as well, so you can reach out to me that way. And by all means, if you want to ask me any questions, I help people with overwhelmed, overthinking, self-sabotage relationships, how to not take things as personally as we do, and ultimately to live our best life and enjoy who we truly are.
Leigh: I think I've got a couple of clients for you, actually. One used to own Microsoft, and the other one is the head of the World Economic Forum.
Eileen: Wow. Yeah. Well, I'm coaching many people.
Leigh: They need your help, though.
Eileen: People like, are you aware that you sabotage yourself?
Leigh: Fantastic. I just want to again, just thank you so much for taking your time and sharing with the Radical Health Rebel tribe today. And I just want to say to everyone that's listening or watching this, if you know someone that could benefit from hearing or watching this podcast, then please do share it with them. There's some great information in this episode. So just to finish off that's. All from us today. Thanks for tuning in to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. But don't forget, you can join me same time, same place next week.
Thanks for tuning in to the Radical Health Rebel podcast with Leigh Brandon. You can find Leigh at www. BodyCHEK. Co UK. Please hit the like button and share on your social media and with someone you feel will benefit from watching this episode. So together we can help them lead a healthier, more productive, active, fulfilling, and happy life.