Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
119 - The Effects of Stealth Propaganda and the Pandemic Illusion with David Charalambous
In this episode of The Radical Health Rebel Podcast, I sit down with David Charalambous, an expert in NLP, Perception, Behavioral Science, Behavior, and Communication. Over the past four years, David has worked with numerous groups, helping them understand how governments and institutions have utilized behavioral science techniques to influence public perception and behavior. With appearances on various podcasts, presentations at conferences, and an array of workshops and resources available on his platform, reachingpeople.net, David shares invaluable insights into influence, behavior, and communication.
I was excited to dive deep with David into why some people accepted the propaganda of 2020 while others resisted and why such a significant divide emerged between these groups. We also explore David’s perspective on how we can collectively move forward and thrive, ensuring that humanity is equipped to recognize and resist future attempts at manipulation. Tune in for an eye-opening conversation that sheds light on how understanding behavior and communication principles can help create a more informed and resilient society.
We discussed:
0:00
Understanding Behavioral Science and Influence
6:36
Navigating Personal Experiences During Crisis
14:57
Unconscious Thought Process in Influencing Beliefs
26:20
Understanding the Hidden Motivations of Behavior
35:56
Subconscious Influences in Decision-Making
49:55
Impact of Situational Factors on Behavior
53:24
Compliance and Group Dynamics in Behavior
1:00:30
Revolutionizing Communication and Behavior Understanding
1:10:36
Navigating Biases and Authority Influence
You can find David @:
https://reachingpeople.net
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvyfzZHwo9WjzZ80D32A5w
https://rumble.com/user/reachingpeople
https://x.com/PeopleReaching
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
Radical Health Rebel YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
most people think that they're consciously in control of all their thinking. Most people think that free will is completely there. I do think it is, but I think you've got to understand how your brain functions to get more of it, and because of that they end up being in a position where they don't think that they can be manipulated or influenced in quite the way that they can. And that in itself is really key, because the people that are not thinking too deeply about thinking are coming up with conclusions not realizing that the information that got them to arrive at that conclusion was fabricated into their mind. Conclusion was fabricated into their mind.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. I'm your host, lee Brandom. This work started for me several decades ago, when I started to see the impact I could make on people, helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out, including serious back, knee, shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed, and it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show. In today's episode, I sit down with David Sherrill-Ambas, an expert in NLP perception, behavioral science, behavior and communication. For the past four years, david has been working closely with groups to uncover how governments and institutions have used behavioral science to shape public perception and influence behavior.
Speaker 2:I was eager to dive deep into David's insights on why some people accepted the propaganda of 2020 whilst others resisted, and how this created a significant divide leading to friction amongst friends, families, colleagues, healthcare workers and even law enforcement and the public. We explore his perspective on how we can collectively move forward. David's approach offers powerful tools for building a more informed and resilient society. Stay tuned for this eye-opening conversation, one that challenges the narratives and equips us to navigate the complexities of modern communication and influence. David Sherrill-Ambus, welcome to the Radical Health Ripple Podcast. Thanks for coming on the show. Hello, good to see you. Yeah, great to have you on, david, and for those of my audience who perhaps haven't come across your work before, can you share a little bit about your background and what motivated you to become interested in things like behavioral science and human communication?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, it started actually quite a long time ago when I, at the age of 25, I'd been headhunted to go be a cio and what I realized very quickly that there was many, many people in the boardrooms that knew a lot about human behavior. As chief information officer, is that, yes, that's the cio, so you're basically in, you know, in charge of all the information. Yeah, and at that point, you know, I knew a lot about systems, I knew a lot about problem solving, but I didn't realize I didn't actually know much about people. So dealing with people is very difficult, especially when you're, you know that young, trying to manage people. But fortunately I was in charge of the training budget, so I sent myself on a initial lot of NLP courses and just pretty much any course I could find psychology behavior and then, uh, interestingly enough, I moved to Sydney and I started working in health and fitness and I studied under Paul Cech for a good few years, which we were chatting about, and I think it was, whilst I was doing that, the realization that it wasn't the information that was lacking in people. So when you think about a lot of your clients and, as a trainer, many clients of the train actually has more books on nutrition than trainer um. So the realization and this isn't about information, and I think there's a statistic that come out of australia something like 97 of fitness programs foul, and what was going on is everyone's just going after more and more information. And that just got me down the psychology the route. Uh, also, I met ed gr Ed Griffin at a seminar and that sort of wakened me to what's going on in the world. So really, from that point I was just, you know, I also met Bruce Lipton and I worked with him on a project. So it was just this insane desire to understand why we do what we do and a lot of the answers really weren't suffice. But NLP was quite useful. But then, you know, dial up to what happened like four or five years ago, at that point I, you know I'd had at that point 20, 25 years study of psychology and I consider myself to being pretty good at holding debates. But then all of a sudden communication became very tough and that led me to go deep down the dive of behavioral science and you know, I set my task to pretty much try and read every book on the subject I could, or the courses, the study, and that gave so many answers.
Speaker 1:And behavioral science now is ubiquitous in uk government. It's being used everywhere against us by corporations and governments. And I use the word against because it doesn't have to be, because it's such a powerful tool and like anything, like a hammer, you can build a house or you can attack someone. It's not the tool itself that's good or bad, it's how people use it. The same with nlp that sometimes gets a bad name. But behavioral science literally can give people and I use the term to cover lots of sort of different sub-subjects on there but it can give people the power to start understanding their behavior and start to align so they you know, they understand themselves, they understand why they do things and you know we can stop falling ourselves and and stop being manipulated is one of the main things yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:And yeah, as I say before, we went live, we were talking about the fact that we both studied with the check institute and obviously I wasn't aware that you did until you told me in an email recently, which was which was quite interesting. And you know, paul Cech was one of the people that really opened my eyes to what was really going on in the world and got me to see the world very, very differently and to open my mind. I think I was a very what's the word? Compliant person before then. I mean, I even remember.
Speaker 2:I remember and it's strange that I remember this because I don't remember too many things before the age of seven, but I remember being four years old in my back garden and I was standing at the gate so I could see over the gate. It wasn't a very high gate and I remember shouting to my mom careful, careful, I can get out, I can get out. I could have just opened the gate and run out. I'm shouting to my mum careful, careful, I can get out, I can get out, right, I could have. Just, I could have just opened the gate and run out, right? Yeah, I'm shouting to my mum, I could get out, I could get out, but I was that compliant.
Speaker 1:I was just stood there right, which is obviously how we are conditioned to be compliant, right yeah, conditioning is is such a major piece of the puzzle in understanding what's going on in the world.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but luckily, I've escaped being a compliant person, which I'm very grateful for. What I want to go over now is your own personal experience of 2020 and 2021 and and how the world looked to you from your point of view. Could you just go over that?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I was actually pretty prepared. I mean, from day one I suspected that things weren't how they were being presented. And that's because a number of years before, I had been working on a few projects where, interesting enough, we bought a farm in new zealand for if something like the pandemic did happen. You know I'd read a lot of the documents that people now were probably seeing, you know predicting, you know the lockstep documents, all those kind of things. So when it kicked off, I was like, okay, here we go. And you know they were saying two weeks to flatten the curve and I'm like, okay, what's going on here? But it was really a few months in where I was like, okay, you know, this is clearly um, going to be very problematic. And I remember someone saying to me because, funny enough, I actually ordered a solar charge and a few other things and started getting prepared that this might be a long game.
Speaker 2:And were you in the UK then or were you still in Australia?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, no, I was in the UK. I was back quite a few years and, funny enough, I was just taking some time out. So it's like everything aligned. I mean, a lot of people claim that they can, they can sort of feel these things coming, and I don't know if you've seen the global consciousness project, but there is certain things that you can say. You know, consciousness will align and you can actually sort of feel these things coming.
Speaker 1:And I had a feeling a few months before the pandemic that I needed to process a lot of fear. So I actually used a few release techniques and I spent about an hour or two just releasing a lot of fear. I didn't know why. I had the feeling to do it, but maybe, who knows, on some level. And then so I kicked off pretty quickly, trying to share information, talk to people, and it was a realization that I didn't have enough skill at that point.
Speaker 1:I thought I had, I thought I'd done enough study, research and I was good at debating up to that point. But there was a realization that something's happened. Someone is tampered with the psyche of the british public and it turned out that had been tampered with in many, many different countries. I spoke to friends in australia and they just I mean, the stuff they were coming out with was just so unlike them, and it's one of those things where it's almost that you're seeing. It's like you're seeing a road crash in slow motion, you're trying to tell people and they're like no, no, no, be silly.
Speaker 1:And of course, I remember having conversations where I made certain statements where they ended up becoming true. And it's not that I was good at predicting, it's just I was reading the documents and yeah. So after a few months I started noticing that you had people speaking up lots of professors, scientists, et cetera and they were using facts, beauty facts, and we understand that's not the best way to reach people. So I started assisting a lot of the different groups and we just went down so much study and then producing lots of material. And, yeah, and it really in some ways, you know, because I was just really in between things, it kind of gave me a purpose and then I just, you know, plowed, I mean, it literally consumed pretty much most hours of the day for months on end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting, I've got a similar kind of story really. So I I don't think I was as far down the road as you from day one, but you know, I I was hearing for years before 2020 that the pharmaceutical industry were looking to mandate vaccines for adults. Obviously they'd already done that with children and obviously they could see there was a gap in the market they hadn't tapped into yet. So I was kind of, you know, when we had all the Zika and all those other illnesses that went on, I was kind of you know, when we had all the Zika and you know all those other illnesses that went on, I was kind of thinking, oh, are they test runs for trying to mandate vaccines for adults. So as soon as I started seeing people dropping dead in the street in China supposedly, I thought, oh, here we go, this could be it. So I was very well, I wouldn't even say I was skeptical I could tell it was nonsense from from day one. And then, as soon as we went into lockdown and obviously at the time I was working out of a facility in central london I was making probably 90, 80 to 90 percent of my income from that facility and now all of a sudden that's gone. So I thought, well, what am I going to do with my days? And because I could see people were already falling for what they were being told, I thought, right, I need to knuckle down and really research this situation.
Speaker 2:And I looked into it and I was spending about 16 hours a day looking into what was going on. And initially I was. I was doing videos, like 90 minute videos, explaining things, yeah, and after about seven weeks I'd gathered so much information and I thought can't put that into a video, it's going to take too long, like I'm going to do a script and you know it would just take weeks to do it. So I thought, oh, I know what I'm good at. I'm good at writing books, I'll just put it into a book. So I wrote a short book about it.
Speaker 2:Um, my friend, matt warden edited it for me, which was very kind of him at the time, but again, like everyone else, he didn't have anything else to do and so I I made that available for free and it was to me. It was so obvious what was going on. I thought, well, as soon as I tell people what's going on, they'll be able to see it and say, oh yeah, now I see it right and this is really what we're going to get onto in a while, because obviously you know, the other thing is as well. I've got so many bands on social media and I've got the platform from one of the social media platforms and what was interesting was I was posting things mainly about suggesting to people that what they were being told wasn't the truth and perhaps they should do their own research.
Speaker 2:Was was the main theme of most of the things yeah, and the amount of abuse I was getting that doesn't go down, well does it doesn't go down well, which you know is really interesting, and then and then sometimes I'd be a bit angry, a bit frustrated, so then I'd maybe put something a bit more provocative in a post, and then you get people arguing with you online. You know, you know the whole story absolutely I, I was yeah and I.
Speaker 2:But I do have to say, on the other side, whilst I had a lot of people criticizing me and trying to argue with me, I probably had a similar number of people contacting me saying I can't thank you enough for this information. Like you know, someone I remember saying I passed this information on to my grandmother and now she's decided that she doesn't want to get this. This I'm not even going to call it the V word, the injectable right, yeah, so things like that. You know, you kind of say, okay, well, what I'm doing is actually worth it, because if I'm helping some people, you know that's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're helping them arrive at a better decision.
Speaker 2:Where I am right now is, you know, I see humanity standing on a precipice, you know, and it seems like you know, we're in a situation where it's almost sink or swim for us right now.
Speaker 2:And I feel that because, again, I've been thinking about this a lot and I feel there are possibly two things that we need to do to stop this kind of current movement towards stakeholder communism and the enslavement and destruction of humanity. The first thing I think is important and this is where you come in, really is that I think we require more people to be able to see the reality of the situation we're in, because if most people realize what's going on'll just say, well, I'm not complying, I'm not going to go along with it, and then it will just all fall apart. The other thing is that, alongside that, I think what we need are alternative um options, so things like, uh, you know, a different financial system, different education system, different health system, different way of getting energy, different judiciary, all those kind of things. Yeah, but obviously your expertise is in the former, as I mentioned. You know, basically reaching out to people and communicating yeah now before we get.
Speaker 1:I am actually working on a number of projects on the second part oh good, that's good to hear.
Speaker 2:It's good to hear. So I don't want to get into solutions yet, but we will get there. But what I want to dig into are the reasons why people believed what they were being told and therefore complied, and why other people didn't believe, like us, what they were being told and therefore chose not to comply. Can you, can you kind of discuss those two different sets of people?
Speaker 1:so voltaire said, if you can convince me of absurdities, then I can commit atrocities. So I think, if you look at how we think, I would say that we are educated to not think correctly about how we think, and that's one of the biggest problems that we have. Most people think that they're consciously in control of all their thinking. Most people think that you know free will is completely there. I do think it is, but I think you've got to understand how your brain functions to get more of it, and because of that they end up being in a position where they don't think that they can be manipulated or influenced in quite the way that they can. And that in itself is really key, because the people that are not thinking too deeply about thinking are coming up with conclusions, not realizing that the information that got them to arrive at that conclusion was fabricated into their mind and that, a bit like if you watch darren brown or any of those guys, you know they do something. So, on that thinking, the point is that you don't come to conclusions consciously, and that's one of the absolute key points. People that have come to the conclusion that it's safe or unsafe think they've done that consciously, but what's happened is they've exposed themselves to a series of information that then the conclusions have come automatically, a bit like aha moments, eureka, et cetera. Most of the thinking isn't conscious and it's quite easy to point this out. So if I said to you what's five times five, you hear this little voice in your head go 25 now, or some people won't hear a voice, but you'll know the answer now. The reason that you've got that answer is because some point in your past history you have automated the tables and your brain then gives you the answer. So it's basically doing a calculation based on inputs. Now, the biggest mistake that people make is they try to tell people outputs, but they don't realize that any conclusion that you've come to, there's so much foundational information that's allowed you to arrive at that conclusion. Now, because that information happens automatically in the back of your mind, you don't really factor it into what you're doing, and this is what leads to what's known as the curse of knowledge.
Speaker 1:So when you're talking to someone you know, so, as we're talking now, every word I use, you're going to have a representation of what that word means, and I'm going to have a representation of what that word means. Now we're going to be in a full sense of security that we share exactly the same meanings. Now, any word like dog, cat, table, anything that's sensory-based, we're going to have such a good overlap that we're generally not going to trip over. If I say the word respect, know, it could mean something completely different to you, to me, and this is where a lot of relationships end up in conflict, so that they're talking using these words, but they're talking about different things.
Speaker 1:So the key point is that the conclusion is come from lots of inputs and what the people pushing the narrative have done is they've manipulated people's inputs to end up coming to that conclusion. And that's why most of the people that know something isn't right. A lot of them do not watch tv because what happens is that the information goes into the unconscious mind a lot, most of it implicitly. So if you watch the people drop dead in the street, unless you're going hang on a minute, that doesn't look right. The unconscious mind's going to go. You know it's going to, for survival reasons it's going to go. This is horrendous. I've got to protect myself from this.
Speaker 1:Now, once someone's taken that view unconsciously sort of in their body, nothing you say is going to change that unless you can get them back to the original information and have that changed. That make sense, yeah, so so when I'm talking to people and of course I made a note when you were talking about when you would say something you know if you say to someone, do your research, right, just tune in. If someone said that to you, say you're talking to someone that you know, trust the government, scientists, yeah, and they say to you do your research. What's your visceral response to that?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's a negative one it's a negative way because you're being you're being told what to do, right exactly so what you've got.
Speaker 1:When you explained that earlier, I I wrote down show, don't tell, and it's one of the most important things for people to understand you effectively. It's very difficult to tell anyone anything and in your line of work that will be subtly different. So people generally will listen to practitioners, doctors et cetera, and a lot of the time they will just go on faith. But it is much more effective to show someone. Now what happens when you show them that goes into the unconscious mind and you can't really decide to view things differently than how they feel, which really it's like when in a court case that they show a piece of evidence and then the judge says, right, that's inadmissible. You know, jurors forget about it. Yeah, all very well, but they're not going to forget about it. It's going to be factored in because it's in their mind now, and that's the thing that you've effectively got to get the information into the person's mind. And that doesn't happen for the majority of the time through explicit learning ie telling.
Speaker 1:When someone has an experience and that experience is so strong such as their uncle dies in a car crash and they put covid on the death cert that experience is too strong to brush under the carpet. Yeah, yeah, that you know it's. It's such an important thing that's happened to them that they're. You know, whenever I was talking to people that were basically calling bs on it, every single one of them had had a story like that. For the most part, there'd be a few people that there was one lady that I spoke to in devon where she said I was just watching matt hancock and I just knew he was lying, and then in the space of two weeks, she'd watched every video on the internet she could find and she was like, right, this is bs.
Speaker 1:And so I think there's another piece that's really key and that's the unconscious drivers. So what you have is it all really comes down to survival. Replication is the two main drives, but then they manifest themselves into drives of approval, control, you know separation to have individuality, all these things. So your psyche is one in those things. But the key part of this is that we and I don't know if you've come across the thinking fast and slow work. I'm sure you've probably heard of it um carl and daniel.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I have oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So daniel kahneman, as well as numerous other people, and also if you go far back as erickson, they talk about two minds, you know conscious, unconscious, etc. Kahneman proposed system one, system two, which is ease processing. The best analogy, I think, or one of the best, is from Zoe Clues, and she talks about not Zoe Clues, sorry, zoe Chance and she talks about the gator and the judge, the gator being the unconscious mind and the judge being the conscious mind. So the gator is all about safety and survival. So you may consciously decide you want to do something, but unless you can get your unconscious mind to go along for the ride so some metaphors use an elephant or a horse unless you can get that to go where you want to go, you're not going to end up there. But you see, what happens is that the rider is always for survival instincts, wanting to be more, it's wanting to be a good person, it's wanting to look good, it's not wanting to be selfish and all these things. So if it does do something that's not seen particularly good to other people, the conscious mind will usually want to rationalize what's going on, which is why you'll see so many people that believe the narrative come out with such justification, which is just mental gymnastics. There's no logic to it, but they will pretend that it is because for them, it's the only thing that keeps them, you know, sort of stable. Um, so yeah, that's really.
Speaker 1:I think jp morgan had a quote in the 20s that was so key. He said there's two reasons for everything a good reason and a real reason now behavioral science and the corporations. They understand this. So when they're at, for instance, when they're advertised. So if I this, this question is going to seem very silly but why do people brush their teeth? What would the standard answer be?
Speaker 2:To keep their teeth clean and stop them rotting probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's going to be. You know, there's this standard answer to prevent cavities, etc. If that was the case, why do people brush their teeth before they go to work, before they go on a date, but not after they've eaten? So what you've got going on effectively is the most reason that people brush their teeth is to basically not have unsightly teeth to others and to not have bad breath. The sort of health aspects of preventing cavities is a good reason, but it generally isn't the real reason. And then you'll see, most toothpastes are flavored with mint. You know why would that be any? So, because the corporations understand this. They sell us on the real reason. So when you watch ads, they're all about bad breath and everything else, aren't they Okay? So they sell this on the real reason. And then they give you the logical good reason as the the way to say oh, that's why I'm really doing it.
Speaker 1:For instance, why would a lot of guys buy a ferrari? Okay, now, it's probably to show off and to, you know, to look good in front of the opposite sex, et cetera, et cetera. But if you ask them why they buy that Ferrari, most people would say, oh, I just like the speed, I like the handling, et cetera. And you see this in a recent book where this guy studied. He went up to BMW drivers and asked them why they drove it.
Speaker 1:So when BMW drivers and I think they were lawyers as well, when they spoke about other lawyers they asked them do the other lawyers buy a BMW as a status symbol? And he goes, yes, he says, but you've got a BMW. They said, oh, no, but I buy it because of blah, blah, blah. So can you see what's going on? When you're judging other people's behaviors, you generally see the real reason a lot more. But when you're judging other people's behaviors, you generally see the real reason a lot more. But when you're judging your own behavior, the brain will give you the good reason over the real reason, because the real reason doesn't feel so good. So when you ask someone why they're wearing a mask, what would they say?
Speaker 2:well, to keep them safe and to keep others safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to protect you because that's the good reason. Yeah, the real reason which we could, you know, we could talk about, but predominantly the real reason is because I'm doing as I told for a lot of people. Some people will be scared, but if they're pulling it under their chin every moment they get, they're not really scared, but a lot of it is. They want, you know, they don't want to be out of place, they don't want someone to shout at them, they don't want to be in confrontation. All of these things are other drivers why they're doing what they're doing. But if you look on the surface of it and you think, oh, it's only about safety, and then you give them numbers about the mask protecting them and not protecting them, that's going to have no effect because that's not the real reason, that they're actually wearing it. Does that begin to see what's going on? So, yeah, the reason, the reason this is so important because, in fact, a lot of the behaviors that happen in the unconscious mind, the reasons are not always presented to the conscious mind and this is why you see such a disparity in what people intend to do, what they actually do.
Speaker 1:So, as a trainer, how many people would you know you'd say, oh, did you manage to do the homework? And they say I didn't have time. Okay, is that a good reason or the real reason? It's the good reason, it's not the real reason, because, yeah, guarantee they've watched five or six hours of tv and they've done this and that and all of these things which, if they were honest, and nowhere near as important or, you know, as their health and everything else. So it's that kind of thing. When we understand ourselves, we can understand when we're you know, when we're not being truly honest with ourselves. And it's not that we're lying to ourselves. Always we don't always know, and that is a lot of time value, a shadow work and other work like that. But then can you see, when you get a better grasp of understanding behavior, then your intervention to talk to someone's going to change, but also a lot of the solutions would change, because you'll start to focus on the real why rather than the why that you're given.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as you were speaking then it reminded me of you know the rules in in the supermarkets when they're not in sorry, not the supermarkets in restaurants when you had to put a mask on to walk six feet to your table and then, when you sat down, you could take the mask off. Now, there's no logic in the universe that could explain that, right? So have you got an idea of of why people just went along with that Cause? That, just that's just I mean. To me, it's just a lot of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's kind of a compliance test, the there's a lot of the time, there's many reasons for it. They're they're basically trying to do design a whole narrative to account for getting what you know, getting the the required outcome, which is to get people, you know, jabbed up, whatever it is, um, but then there's these pesky little things of how do we still operate in the world, and you know all of these things. So you notice that mcdonald's and other places were allowed to be open, but yet they closed the gyms and but you see, the crazy thing is is that when someone's bought into something okay, and that might have even be trusting the government, what they then will do. And bigger, one of the biggest problems that people face is you're pushing up against system justification. Okay, so you could.
Speaker 1:You can't out logic someone about why they shouldn't wear a mask, because they generally don't know why they're wearing it and they're not gonna. They're not gonna admit to themselves I'm wearing it because I don't have, you know, the guts to stand up against the government or you know, or stand out, or etc. They're not going to admit that to themselves because it's too dent into the self-image, which is primarily why the mind is coming up with reasons. So once the rule is in place and they've kind of bought into it, then what you're going to see is mental gymnastics to justify the rule and they say, oh well, it might make 1% difference, and then if it makes 1% difference, then I'm going to do it, and et cetera. Oh well, it might make 1% difference, and then if it makes 1% difference, then I'm going to do it, and et cetera, et cetera. And it's quite easy to turn that logic back on itself and show them you know the contradiction, et cetera.
Speaker 1:But the problem is you're then in a dynamic where you can never really get them to understand, because you're then in a dynamic of trying to, you know, force them to admit they've done something silly or that they're wrong, and and then when you're in those dynamics, it's really about winning the debate, and if you threaten their mind too much, they just shut down, yeah, and invariably they get angry and then have a go at you yeah, yeah, I seen seen plenty of that over this period of time, for sure, so that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:So, in terms of, you know, addressing someone who believes different things to you, going at the level of facts, is just completely useless. It's just not going to work completely useless.
Speaker 1:It's just not going to work. Uh, not if you see there's a few things you need to do before that. Yeah, but then the way you deliver the fact is key. Right, so you can't tell the fact, but you can show the fact, and the best way of showing the fact is in a story. Okay, and most of the people that are aware what's going on, they've literally, you know, I spoke to lawyers and so and they've either seen a, you know, a top secret document or they've been in a situation where the truth revealed itself.
Speaker 1:And that's what I think's going on the last few years, and you kind of touched on it in in the introduction that what's going on now is that it's the true intentions are really becoming clear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why you're seeing literally tens of thousands of of, you know, highly intelligent people, a lot of highly educated people, now beginning to realize that the train isn't going where they thought it was going, and that's because, at sort of end game of control, you know they reveal their hand. You know that has to happen. So when they say, oh, it's about saving lives which, by the way, is an empty propaganda narrative it really doesn't mean any of these things, but then they clearly demonstrate they didn't do that. That contradiction ends up being so strong that then people begin to question things, and a big part of the problem is if you're, if your family's, benefiting from where that train's going, there's going to be a lot more challenge to push against that. Yeah, and that's why I think we're entering an incredible opportunity, because less and less people are going to be benefiting from the plans going forward, and because they're not benefit of it, it's going to be quite easy for them to push against it yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:So, going back to 2020 now, yeah, what was what would you say was the difference between the people who fell for the propaganda and the people that didn't? What was the difference at that point?
Speaker 1:well it's. If you look into this in depth, it will be what they call prior experience, and prior experience will create your belief systems. So if you've had a prior experience and it's not just prior experience, it also is belief systems which come from prior experience but but your drives, your motivations, you know how much you're benefiting from, etc. Etc. So at some point all these things converge and they, you know, they give you a world viewpoint and then you've got your morals and values that come into it and you know there's people that will delude themselves that they're doing the right thing because you know it benefits them. But generally it will be people's prior experience and what you'll find is that we're. You know, as we mentioned, when someone's uncle dies in a car crash and they put covid in the death cert, that experience is so strong that now they don't trust the death cert process. Okay, if they've had a few other experiences similar, then it doesn't take many of them for the straw to break.
Speaker 1:The camel's back now, obviously we spoke about when I trained under the check institute. Then I met ed griffin. I was well aware that the world doesn't work how we, you know the majority of people think it works. You know banking system, everything else. So when they come up and I didn't drug, you know, I wouldn't trust a drug salesman as far as I could throw him then anything that was coming out of their mouths for me is just you know, I'm highly skeptical of everything the pharmaceutical industry says. So when they're saying things like, oh yeah, it usually takes 10 years to produce one of these, but we've done it in a few months, and at the same time they're saying it's safe and effective.
Speaker 1:So when the certainty if anyone's very certain of their position, that should be a red light to begin with. That's a red flag. You know flashing blue lights there. Hang on a minute, because how can you be certain about something that's had a few months testing? You can't. You might, in some universe, be able to justify that. It's. The only way out is is what they did, which was a lie as well. But but to have that was some of the contradictions which really should be alarming.
Speaker 1:A lot of the the professionals in the industry was you can't be certain, in a sense, because history teaches us that it's not there. And then you get these provax professors on. You know x, you know making sort of ludicrous tweets all the time and, yeah, so that was some of the key things. But you see, if you think about so it's people, prior experiences and how that fits into their model of the world, which is really how they filter the world, can you see what's going on? Because we all suffer from confirmation bias.
Speaker 1:It's literally explicitly wired into the brain for survival and you know you can take it into account and you can reduce its effect. But what you've got effectively is people's first few experiences then become much more prominent. So if someone did watch the people dropping dead in the street, to them this is suddenly a dangerous you know virus, um, you know, and even, and then quoting numbers won't make any difference because it's not about logic. You know, the unconscious mind doesn't really work on logic. It doesn't have a language center, apparently. So what it's doing is it's using its senses I, sight, sound, feel and you know and previous experiences to keep you safe. So it's not going to trust what somebody says in a number over its experience. So the key point there is that that's why media has such power, because they're giving people experiences all the time, and if you're watching an experience that's been fabricated, that part of your brain doesn't know that. Yeah, you see what's going on, so you, yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:The other thing as well about tvs is that they do programs right. It's programming, and when you watch the tv you go into a hypnotic state.
Speaker 1:So you know what part of the mind is that accessing is the subconscious right yeah, it's talking directly to you, know your unconscious mind, and it's so well known now that there's a thing called narrative translation, where back in the 80s the harvard alcohol project got together with ABC Studios and, I think, various Hollywood studios and they wrote the term designated driver into Dallas, you know, cosby Show, la Law, all of these things, to introduce the concept to the American and the wider world. It became quite a norm for someone to say I'm the dd, I can't drink tonight, which isn't a particularly bad use of, you know, sharing information. The problem is that they understand it's such depth now that you can't watch a tv program now without seeing. You know, you could guess the sort of storylines, but they're not accidental. They've written them on purpose because they know that it does change people's attitudes and opinions. But people won't be conscious that their attitudes and opinions are being changed.
Speaker 1:See, it's very fascinating when you begin to run some thought experiments how many burning buildings have you seen in real life? And then you search your mind and like have I seen any one? Okay, yeah, so one. So when you're watching the tv, right, your representation of a burning building comes from watching the burning building, pretty much probably in fiction, yeah, or maybe on the news, but if that doesn't happen in real life, how it happens in the movies, you wouldn't necessarily know, because that part of the mind really, a lot of time, can't distinguish the difference between fact and fiction. So writing all these storylines into the tv shows becomes so powerful and effective because even the words we use, so many of them, come from being introduced through media yeah, yeah, something that I saw not that long ago.
Speaker 2:Actually, I can't even remember where I saw it, but there were three social media influences were invited along to this. You see, magic for humans, yeah magic for humans.
Speaker 1:It's called. It's magic for humans. The guy runs the youtube channel and he and he basically gets them to date the same selfie, doesn't he? That's right, that's right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if I just explain it for the audience, so they'll get. They get these three influencers along and they say to them beginning do you think that you can be influenced by any chance? And they're like like no, we're influencers, we can't be influenced. And so they're in this kind of I don't know what it is like a studio and there's different rooms.
Speaker 1:It's a selfie studio isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, with like 20 rooms, yeah. And they say, right, you've got I can't remember what it was 20 minutes, or maybe two minutes, I can't remember exactly how much time and you need to go into a room, take a selfie with a prop and then write a tagline for a social media post. And then they came back and they all presented, they did, they took, they all took the picture in the same room with the same prop and used the same tagline, and they were flabbergasted. And then he showed them how he did it. Yeah, yeah. And it just makes you realize how susceptible we are to influences we're not aware of and how they can drive our behaviors it is, and this I mean.
Speaker 1:Darren brand does this in an art, artful way as well. He did a similar thing with advertisers and execs. But you see, what's going on from an evolutionary standpoint is that you're taking in all the information in the surrounding area and your brain is filtering out and only showing you the bits that it considers important, the bits so, for instance, I mean you can see how this would be useful. So let's say you're walking along and you suddenly become hungry. You think, oh, I need to look for some food, you know 10,000 years ago. And then your brain might go, oh, we passed an apple tree, you know half a mile back. And you might think, oh, I'm not going to find it. You go forward, so you'll go back. So your brain will bring that information up to awareness, will provide it, will bring that information up to awareness. So if you think that there's this threshold where a lot of that information doesn't go over that threshold, and that's what you call subliminal, so anything below that threshold is so subliminal. So what he was doing was he was providing lots of information to those three influencers, but at a level, subliminally, that they wouldn't realize consciously, but that information would be used for their decision process. You see what's going on. So he's effectively provided the information for them to come to a conclusion and they were unaware that that's happened and that touches on what we're talking about earlier that they were under the illusion that they consciously came to that conclusion. But via repetition and numerous other nudges, he basically prompted them. And he did it in a very, you know, artful way. And that's what's really key, because we're not. This is where we have to understand that when we when thoughts coming into our mind they might not be yours, for instance, they.
Speaker 1:There's another study where people in a supermarket and they played background music and on the day that they played French music, I think it was the sales went up to 76%. And when they played German music, the sale of German wine went up to like mid 70s%. And so what's going on is that you're being prompted. You know it's called priming, so you're being primed for for a decision. Now, you don't always have awareness that that's going on, but what's really interesting is when those shoppers were asked, did the music affect you? Most of them said, well, didn't hear it. And then, when they were prompted, oh, it's actually fact. They said they denied that had any effect.
Speaker 1:And this is why this, this, this whole field, is so powerful, because it's stealth for the most part. So you've got these people that can really. So you know, with power really does come responsibility, but the institutions, governments, literally don't appear to have a moral code. For the most part, a lot of them do that. I mean, you can? I remember the documentary the corporation, where a lot of corporations actually act like psychopaths. That's literally how we act, yeah, so it's very interesting that that, really that story around those influences you brought up is very, because I actually used it as an example to show how information because what I say is we've got this engine room, which is the unconscious mind, and that's chugging away, and if that has loads of information popped in there, it's going to use that information for its conclusion. You see, so in order to reach someone, the the best way of having someone shift their opinion is exposing them to better quality information via routes and channels that it can be absorbed, and once they've absorbed enough of it, they literally will change their conclusion interesting.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting as well. I, years ago 20 plus years, probably, 24 ish years ago I was the fitness manager of a health club and I quite a big team. It's about 20 people in my team and I used to have one-to-one meetings with everyone every week and we used to have an hour-long team meeting every week as well, and quite often what I would do was exactly what you just described. So I'd sit down with someone with a one-to-one and I'd put an idea to them and I'd just throw it out there, knowing that in a week and a half's time I was going to bring it up in a meeting and I'll bring it up in the meeting, and I'd say, oh, has anyone got any ideas? And the person who I told said, oh, how about we do this?
Speaker 2:what a fantastic idea, and so I mean, obviously anyone else could speak, and if someone else did come up with a better idea, we'd go along with it. But in a way I was making my team members think that they were involved in the decision making process, whereas actually I'd actually planted the idea in their head and they didn't know I was doing it well, you see, what happens is the person was probably then suffering from what's known as cryptomnesia, which is later on.
Speaker 1:They actually thought that was their idea, because that's what the brain does, you know once. You've once someone sold you this thought and then, six months down the line, that thought comes up again. You think it was your original thought.
Speaker 2:It's so fascinating the way that works yeah, yeah, sometimes I do I think of something and I think was that my idea or did I get that from someone else? I often think that I mean I do, I do come up with my own ideas. I'm not, you know, I don't have to follow people all the time, but I'm sure there are times when I think, yeah, that was my idea and it probably wasn't my idea yeah, well there's.
Speaker 1:It depends what we mean by idea, because there's so many things that converge in together to produce an output. This is probably a really good point to pivot into this, this situation versus the person, because once you understand what we've just been talking about, which your unconscious mind is going to process this information, it's going to come to certain conclusions about what it's observing. The situation that people then find themselves in, combined with information and their belief system, really will begin to dictate their behavior. Now, about 90% of people are heavily influenced by the situation that's going on in front of them. So let me just give an example.
Speaker 1:So one of the famous studies was they did a study of theology students and they split them into three different groups and these students were told they were going to go to the adjacent building and give a sermon on the Good Samaritan, which is obviously about helping someone in trouble. Now, what they did was the three groups were split up accordingly to one group were told they were in a rush, one group told on time and the last group were told that they had plenty of time. Now, on the journey to the adjacent building, an actor was placed and he was sort of groaning and acting as though he was in need of attention or assistance. Now, what they were measuring is how much would being in a rush affect people's behavior? It turned out that those had plenty of time 65 of them stopped but those who are in a rush only I think it was 11 of them stopped. You see what's going on there. So the frame of being in a rush actually had more effect on whether people stopped and helped than their personality.
Speaker 1:So what happens is that if, if people are masters at creating the right situations, they can predict the behavior and they can almost cause the behavior. For instance, the. You know, if you suddenly say, oh, we've run out of toilet roll, are you going to predict that everyone's going to act crazy and start buying it all up? And then, obviously, maybe, if that was a test, then there was the answer. And so this is really key to understand, because a lot of conflict, a lot of problems in the world are literally caused by the situation, rather than one of the two people being a bad person.
Speaker 1:There are some bad people in the world, obviously, and a lot of that if we call those so bad people. They've had bad experiences that in the world, obviously and a lot of that, you know. If we call those so bad people, that's they've had bad experiences that have made them that way a lot of the time. But one of the other examples I gave is when, where I used to live, I'd walk my dog, you know, twice a day and we would cross two zebra crossings on the way to the, to the field. Now, on one of the zebra crossings I almost got run over every day, and on the other one, never. Now, when you start to ponder what's going on there, can it be that all the bad drivers are at one of the zebra crossings? Okay, that doesn't make sense, does it no? So what do you think's going on there?
Speaker 2:it's probably, uh, an issue with the road itself and probably the vision.
Speaker 1:It's the design of the road and their situation is meaning that people aren't. So basically, it was at the top of a hill, so people are coming to the top of the hill and then suddenly someone's about to cross the road, already on the zebra crossing, and it's too late for them to do anything and they've just, rather than you know, hit the brakes on. They, they almost run the person over and so the road design is very bad. But if you were to talk, but initially my thing was oh, they're another arsehole, another arsehole. But it's only when you start to ponder things like because I remember talking to one of the guys in the media about this and he said, yeah, he said when I'm on a bike, the cars are arseholes, but I'm in a car, the bike's the arsehole I was going.
Speaker 1:So it's really the situation that's causing the conflict and a lot of the time, you know, it's the situation that's badly designed or that's causing the problem for both people to end up in a conflict, which is really going on. For most of the conversations during the pandemic, you've got a number of people that are trusting. You know, the authority institutions aren't completely corrupt, because they haven't had any experience to tell them otherwise, or they've just. You know their belief systems. A lot of time are driven by desire, and then you've got a bunch of people that question in it.
Speaker 1:The people causing the problem are not in the conversation, so the situation has been caused by that but, then you've got two people that are have been exposed to completely different information, and then you know they're banging, their belief systems are banging up against each other, and that's what causes a lot of the conflict. Yeah, yeah, and then they're told so. Just one last point they're then told not wearing a mask are selfish in a sense. So then they, those people following the then look at those not as the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's the dog right on cue, yeah. So another thing that I'm really kind of curious about as well, and I'd like to get your view on it, is you know, a lot of people kind of had this attitude of, oh, they wouldn't do that to us. Yes, right now, I know I'm pretty sure you're familiar with the milgram experiments, right yeah can you? Can you explain those to the audience, because I think that kind of explains it pretty well yeah, well, there's.
Speaker 1:There's also a few things in the Milgram experiments that most people aren't aware of that are really, really fascinating.
Speaker 1:So basically, stanley Milgram was studying why people would comply. And you know, invariably the previous world wars were, you know, were very shocking to people, how both sides, you know, complied with and obviously one side often was always painted in the bad light. But milgram then was trying to study why would people comply and under what conditions. So I created this experiment where there's an actor on the other side of a door and the participant in the study is told that the actor's wired up to the machine that the participant's about to press and what he's instructed to do, he or she is to press a button when the machine that the participant's about to press and what he's instructed to do, he or she is to press a button when the person in the white coat asks them to do so. Milgram is measuring how many people would push that button when it starts to get to electric and it's an electric shock that's administered and they're going all the way up to the point where that electric shock can be fatal, all the way up to the point where that electric shock can be fatal. Now. So milgram's measure and how many people would literally hurt someone else just because authority told them to do so? And it turned out it was about 67, which is really shocking. But the last four years is like a real life milgram experiment. But people are so driven to not push against authority for a number of reasons and I think partly because of our upbringing and we can go into that because we've been doing some research recently. It's really fascinating.
Speaker 1:But one of the most fascinating things about this study is that Milgram surveyed a group of experts before the study. Now there was a group of psychology students and they were estimated how many people were pushed a button and they said one in a hundred, okay. Now when they asked the psychotherapist, they actually said one in a thousand would push the button, okay. Now it's very revealing because we are even the experts back then were notoriously terrible at predicting behavior, and the reason is because most of the drivers of behavior are hidden. You know they're a lot of them actually hidden for the person conducting the behavior. So, for instance, virtual signaling how many people would say I'm going to do this because it's a great virtual signal? They probably wouldn't, would they? They would they would, you know, wear the mask or wear the shoe or whatever. But it'd be very hard for them to admit that to themselves because you know it wouldn't look good to them. Their self-image would suffer. So because you've got these hidden drivers to behavior, experts in the past have been very poor at predicting behavior.
Speaker 1:But because now behavioral science, a couple of decades ago, stopped listening to people and started watching them, okay, and that's a very good piece of advice. If you want to know someone's true intention, just watch what they do. Yeah, yeah, because you know we've all been in relationships where what someone's saying doesn't match what they're doing and and behavior is very far more telling than people's words. You know, words are cheap, as it were. So when it comes to compliance, very few people are going to say I mean, you were quite open, weren't you, when you were talking about when you were a kid. But most people don't want to say oh, I'm a good little citizen, I love to comply, you know. So they're going to say you know, if you ask the public, if they're critical thinkers, you're going to get a high 90% answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, what the milgram experiment really showed is that normal people will do horrible things when authority tells them to do it. Yet most people don't believe that most other people would and they definitely don't believe that they would do it themselves. But the reality is, as you said, that experiment suggests that 67 percent of people would actually press the button. Do you remember I think there was there was a certain measurement in terms of how many would press the button if it was like a lethal level?
Speaker 1:do you know? Yeah, well, that was I think. I think that was 67 percent up to the lethal number wow, you see what you've got.
Speaker 1:I mean, this has been replicated time and time again and obviously you Well, I think that was 67% up to the lethal number. Wow, you see what you've got. I mean, this has been replicated time and time again and obviously you probably know about Solomon Ash, about the lion limbs, et cetera, et cetera. Do you want to explain those? Just for the audience? Yeah, so, solomon Ash.
Speaker 1:Funny enough, I found out recently that Solomon Ash actually ran those studies because he didn't believe that that would happen. So Mustaf Sharif actually ran an earlier set of studies showing that people comply to group norms and they will start to listen and just agree with people, even if they think people are wrong. But Solomon Asch looked at those studies and he said no, no, there's a problem because the answer wasn't obvious. So you thought what we need to do is create a situation where the answer is so obvious that we will know whether people are doing it just to fit in. And, as it turned out, when you create a situation where there's five actors answering wrong on purpose, the sixth person feels such pressure to also answer wrong, just not to stand out from the group. So group dynamics, group pressure, peer pressure is so powerful, but most people won't consciously admit that it's powerful because it doesn't fit in with most people's sense of self.
Speaker 1:There's a couple of things that I've been studying recently that really do shed a lot of light on this, and a lot of it's to do with classical conditioning. Know, pavlov's dogs with the bringing of the bell, and and it's kind of blown my mind just how important this is. So just to to briefly explain that. So pavlov I think it was in the 1880s maybe he he noticed that you know, he ran this experiment where he would ring a bell and feed the dogs and then he found that he could ring the bell and the dogs would salivate. Okay, so then what people you know they talk about, you know bell salivation, but there's such a key piece that's missing from here. Is that what's going on is that when Pavlov rings the bell, the dogs are attributing the meaning to the ringing of the bell is that food is coming and that's why they salivate, not because the bell is ringing, because of the meaning that they've given to it.
Speaker 1:So what happens is that when we're young, you know, if your parents stop looking after you, say you're two years old and your parents just leave you and you're out in the wilderness. What are your chances of survival? Yeah, pretty slim. Yeah, pretty slim. So, instinctively and intuitively, when our parents withdraw love, that will often trigger the fear response. Okay, and this is why so many people are scared of authority. And then, obviously, school drums this in massively yeah, exactly, and. And they use a lot of emotional and doctors yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 1:What what happens is is that a lot of people in the world actually have fear triggered when they're criticized. Now we've been working on studying processes that can undo, that can decondition it, and it's very powerful because we have someone imagine when they were first criticized by their parents and then they feel fear. And then what happens is they feel fear because their brain is saying if your parents abandon you, you're basically not going to survive. Your parents abandon you, you're basically not going to survive. But you can't. You can't really make sense that they're not going to do that when you're two, three, four or five years old. You, you know you think very differently to you do now, but what happens is it only takes a few instances for those two things to be fused together, much like the bell and the, the celebration of the dogs, that when you're criticized you then feel fear. But what? What is quite amazing? That if you're criticized in a very loving way, or even if you imagine your parents criticizing you, but in a very loving way, you don't feel fear. Okay, and and when that distinction gets into the unconscious mind, then thinking about being criticized in the future doesn't trigger fear.
Speaker 1:So when you look at what happened with the pandemic, the first few months of the media was to fuse covid with fear, to be so automated that just the mention of the thing would trigger the fear, and then that would let you so fear. What fear does is it pretty much paralyzes action, which is what it did. It brought the whole world to a halt, didn't it? It didn't make any logical sense, because everyone has much more chance of dying from a hundred other different things, like more than COVID. Covid was nowhere near the top of the you know the death list, was it? No, but that didn't make any difference because that wasn't people's experience. People weren't watching you know all the other diseases on tv 24 7. So it was conditioned and that's why it becomes so prominent. So, yeah, there's there's a lot of answers in the classical conditioning, but it also gives us a lot of, I think, confidence and hope that a lot of this can be unwound.
Speaker 1:And when people really can start taking control of their own minds, then they can not be responding automatically. And then that does ask a very interesting question. So let's say, lee, that you're talking to someone and you say something and that person gets angry. Did that person decide consciously to get angry? Probably not. No, what's happened? Is that something you said has triggered some kind of automatic response?
Speaker 1:That's triggered anger, and anger is usually triggered by it's an emotion to lash out to protect us. But it's also triggered primarily by powerlessness in the ego. And that's why so many people get angry when you challenge their worldview, because it really highlights the powerlessness of what's going on. And that's really a key point, because people take offense that someone else has got angry with them, but that other person, a lot of the time, hasn't intended to be that way. They're just suffering from very bad habits and very bad mindset and conditioning and all sorts of things. And really, you know, once they become conscious of that, then they really should do something about that, but often that doesn't happen yeah, that kind of leads us on nicely to solutions.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, you know it has been. It's been a tough four years, I think, for everyone. Um, and I think it's important to not forget what's happened. I think that's important because we need to learn from what has happened. Yeah, so what do you see as solutions going forward, especially reaching out to those who are still unable to see beyond the programming?
Speaker 1:Well, as part of the project, we have a piece which is the communication piece. So it's learning how to have a good conversation, learning how to navigate someone's resistance, how to navigate their automatic responses that trigger them in a fight or flight, and creating a dialogue. When you can do that, then you can really start to reach a lot more people. There's a second piece, which is the messaging, which is if you can start to on a grander scale you know flyers, media posts, documentaries if you understand how to present information in a much more effective way, then you're going to reach a lot more people. So there's a big piece on holding engagement and there's a lot of research on this and, for instance, virgin Atlantic, their in-flight safety video. They changed the way they presented it because no one was watching it on the flights and not only did people start to watch it and engage with it, they got 6 million hits in about 14 days on YouTube with it. They got six million hits in about 14 days on youtube. So the there's a sort of rule that says the way in which you say something is more important than what you say in terms of keeping someone engaged. Okay, so you really got to want to learn how to deliver information to keep person engaged, interested. I mean, it's very a key part of conversations and messaging is the net effect on someone's feeling and you want it to be positive. Okay, if it doesn't feel good, they're generally going to move away from it. People, it's really shocking how people do not want bad information, even if that information is really important. So there's an assumption there that that is not correct, which is we think if we've got something important for someone to know that they're going to want to know it, that doesn't test very well because it shows that that isn't the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the third piece is really understanding behavior. So then you can start to take control of your own mind and then you can start to influence other people to and you really only want to be influencing people. What's good for them and pretty much within their consent and knowledge and that's what being a good leader would be is that you're very open about what your plans are, what you're going to do, and you motivate people to think, yeah, that sounds good, I'm going to follow you. So they're the three things around you know in the project around communication and behavior. But then what you touched on is building alternate systems, because if you've only got one supermarket, and that's the only place you can get food, that's the only place that people will go and net is closing around on these things that we've got.
Speaker 1:You know, we're moving towards this really weird sort of monoculture of of options, and they generally always give you two options, you know, because they that's what's given, but a lot of the time the same shareholders own both the companies. So, yeah, it's really an illusion of choice. So for me, a big part of it is inner work. You know, there's a massive gap between what we intend to do and what we actually do. If we can close that gap and really take power back, then there's not going to be a centralized power structure, which is, you know, makes the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so do you have resources on your, on your website, where people can become better communicators?
Speaker 1:yes, so I mean, we are trying to make it a lot easier to access, but at the moment there's there's a really good document do's and don'ts. In conversation, there's many, many presentations, many interviews.
Speaker 1:Um, we actually I just put a course up- there and it's literally it's half the price of a book, basically because I did it for a canadian group and and that's six hours of content for I think it's five pound and that takes you through a lot of what we've been talking about today and more. And then we're going to develop some more courses from a lot of the information. We've had massive bottlenecks in terms of, you know, we've just not had the time to do what we want to do. But the information we haven't released yet, I think is really really powerful. But the information we haven't released yet, I think is really really powerful.
Speaker 1:People will really understand why people are acting in what looks like irrational ways, but at a deeper level it's rational. So biases are often seen in a negative light, but they got us here. You know what I mean. They allowed us to survive. If you had to think consciously about doing everything, you wouldn't be able to do anything. There'd be too much to do.
Speaker 1:So, for instance, let's say you're on holiday in spain. You walk past two restaurants, one of them's busy, the other one's empty. Which one are you likely to go in? Okay, you're gonna go in the busy one. You think, oh, it must be good, etc. But what if the owner of that restaurant has invited all his cousins over, knowing full well that people will only go in a busy restaurant, and he's, and he's been attacking the other restaurant. So that's where we are. Is that our bias? Is a bit it played to get us to make a decision that's not in our best interest, because the people in the corporations and the governments understand our biases.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the biases is the authority principle, which is we listen to experts and authority. So what they do is they silence all the ones that don't agree with them and therefore people say oh, all the experts I mean the amount of people that said to me oh so you're telling me all the scientists in the world, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like you know all. How can all of them agree? They didn't even release the data. They wanted to hide it for seven years, so effectively, you've got a few scientists that are basically working for profit in a company. They're the only ones that are. You know, and and we've seen how that works in history, when there's a lot of financial reward generally, you know, certain people will not be very moral in that respect yeah, yeah, it's interesting how people do bow down to authority so easily.
Speaker 2:But again, like you said, it's it's. It's the way that we're brought up, you know. First it's our parents, then it's our school teachers might be religious leaders and then we've got medical doctors as well.
Speaker 1:We just do what we're told and that's yeah that's how this exactly and this is a really important thing to decondition because if you want, say, you're at a march and you want to go and have a, a calm conversation with someone in authority it might be a police officer or an mp or whatever it is but you suddenly feel fear, which, and the thing is, a lot of people won't want to admit to feeling these emotions because it doesn't look very macho, etc. But let's just be honest with ourselves. I mean, I used to feel that way, I mean, but the first couple of marches I had a real hesitation to go up and you know, to talk to the police officers, and now the realization huh, that's an automatic response. And then I deconditioned that. So then I was able to go up and have a calm conversation and challenge them on things, etc. And that's a very important step for a lot of people to get to.
Speaker 1:First we got to be honest with ourselves. Do we get an automatic negative emotion about something? If we do, that's very good information. We can decondition that and then we don't have to feel that way and then we can have a lot more freedom about what we want to do and what we do yeah, I'm guessing you didn't try and stop to chat to the right police when they were steaming in yeah, that wouldn't be, uh, the wise thing to do.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's well. This is the. The problem with a lot of what's going on at the moment is the conditioning in the education of people if they're told that you've got all these far-right protesters, which are just families, basically for the most part, this is where the propaganda and coming, you know, full circle to that quote by Voltaire if you can convince me of absurdities, I can commit atrocities. So if the people in the police and whatever see the people that are on the march as being nasty people, they're not going to have much care for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been great, david. I'm sure we could speak for hours and hours. Is there anything you want to add?
Speaker 1:just to, just to finish up, um, I think it's very easy to feel somewhat powerless about what's going on in the world, but the key thing is that the apathy that a lot of people feel has been, in my view, been done intentionally. So then you ask yourself the question do I want to feel question? Do I want to feel powerless, do I want to feel this apathy, or do I actually want to do something that makes a difference in the world? And everyone, every single person, can do something to make a difference, and if everyone does start doing that one thing, then we're going to see some massive, massive change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, actually, I do have one more question for you. I was going to ask it earlier and it's just popped back in my head. One of the things we've seen a lot of is families splitting over what's been going on right Again, you've got compliant family members, non-compliant family members. Both sides think each other are nut jobs. I've been called nut jobs and worse, by my family members. Both sides think each other are nut jobs. I've been called nut jobs and worse by my family members. Yeah, what would be perhaps the best way to reach out to family members who perhaps we don't see eye to eye with?
Speaker 1:the single biggest first step is to clear the communication channel. Now, we made a video on this and it's on the youtube channel. So if you go to the website reachingpeoplenet on there, there should bea link to the youtube channel, which is called reaching people, and there's a video called dreading family gatherings. What happens is when you clear down the negative emotions you feel towards that person, they will respond to you differently. So that would be the first step that I would take. Yeah, and then I would just be vulnerable and just say look, I really want to talk to you, I'm really worried about what's going on, and and just let them know. You know you're on the same side.
Speaker 1:That's the really key bit that we touched on. You know, when you're divided and you see each other in different camps, you're never really going to find a point of agreement. So find the common ground, you know, clear the emotions down and then go through each of the points in that document. That's on the website, the do's and don'ts in conversation, and if you abide by those, you'll generally have a much better conversation with those loved ones. Great, excellent.
Speaker 2:So, David, what's next for you?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm off to New Zealand for a few conferences, so that's going to be very interesting and there's a lot of things in the pipeline around releasing stuff on these behavior courses and just continuing to support and assist lots of the groups around the world.
Speaker 2:Great, Excellent, and where can people find you online, your website, your YouTube, et cetera?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so reachingpeoplenet a lot of the links are on there. We do have a presence on X and Facebook and all these things, but we've been so, so busy, just really haven't had much chance to get on there. So, the way to to keep check the website, we've got a lot more interviews ready to go up and a lot of articles coming out soon. So, yeah, the best place would be the website and if, if they scroll to the bottom of the home page, they can sign up for the invites, for free zooms and to be advised of what's going on.
Speaker 2:Excellent excellent and I'll I'll make sure all the uh, all the links are in the show notes brilliant david, thank you so much. I've absolutely loved talking to you for the last what's? It been 75 minutes or so, and, uh, I'd probably probably love to get you back on at some time in the future as well yep, love to.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure lee.
Speaker 2:Awesome me too so that's all from david and me for this special episode, but don't forget to join me same place next time and, in the meantime, spread the word about the Radical Health Rebel podcast and help create change in the world to make it a healthier, fairer and happier place for us all to live. Until next time, thanks for tuning in, remember to give the show a rating and a review, and I'll see you next time.
