Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
145 - Gut Health & Thyroid Function: The Hidden Connection with Dr. Eric Osansky
I’m joined by Dr. Eric Osansky to explore the fascinating connection between gut health and thyroid function. Many people struggling with thyroid issues focus solely on the gland itself, but what if the root cause lies in the gut?
Dr. Osansky, a functional medicine practitioner specializing in thyroid health, shares how an imbalanced gut can lead to inflammation, autoimmune reactions, and hormonal disruptions that directly impact thyroid function. We discuss the key signs of gut dysfunction, how to restore balance, and practical steps you can take to improve both your digestive and thyroid health naturally.
If you or someone you know is dealing with hypothyroidism, Hashimoto’s, or other thyroid-related concerns, you won’t want to miss this one. Tune in to discover why healing the gut is often the missing piece to optimizing thyroid function and overall well-being.
We discussed:
0:00
Introduction to Autoimmune Thyroid Conditions
8:10
Dr. Osansky's Personal Journey with Graves' Disease
16:19
Understanding Graves' Disease and Hashimoto's
26:51
The Gut-Thyroid Connection Explained
36:51
Triad of Autoimmunity and Leaky Gut
47:08
Foundation Factors for Optimal Health
57:33
Triggers That Disrupt Gut Health
1:07:27
Food Triggers and Toxin Exposures
1:17:56
Functional Approach to Healing
You can find Eric @:
https://savemythyroid.com/quiz
https://savemythyroid.com/podcast-2/
https://savemythyroid.com/book/
https://savemythyroid.com/youtube
https://www.facebook.com/groups/saveyourthyroid/
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh's website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Substack - https://substack.com/@radicalhealthrebel
YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
Rumble Channel - https://rumble.com/user/RadicalHealthRebel
Leigh's courses:
StickAbility - https://stickabilitycourse.com/
Mastering Client Transformation - https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/mastering-client-transformation/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
It'll be anywhere like 90, 95% of thyroid conditions are autoimmune again sort of research. That means 90 to 95% of people with hyperthyroidism have Graves, 90 to 95% of people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's. And so you want to do everything to optimize the immune system, to optimize the thyroid, the health of the thyroid. So one of the ways you do that is by having a healthy gut, and there's a few reasons for that.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. I'm your host, lee Brandom. This work started for me several decades ago when I started to see the impact I could make on people, helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out, including serious back, knee, shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed, and it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show. In today's episode, I'm joined by Dr Eric Ozansky to explore the fascinating connection between gut health and thyroid function.
Speaker 2:Many people struggling with thyroid issues focus solely on the gland itself, but what if the root cause lies in the gut? Dr Ozansky, a functional medicine practitioner specializing in thyroid health, shares how an imbalanced gut can lead to inflammation, autoimmune reactions and hormonal disruptions that directly impact thyroid function. We discuss the key signs of gut dysfunction, how to restore balance and practical steps you can take to improve both your digestive and thyroid health. Naturally, if you or someone you know is dealing with hypothyroidism, graves' disease, hashimoto's or any other thyroid related concerns, you won't want to miss this one. Stay tuned to discover why healing the gut is often the missing piece to optimizing thyroid function and overall well-being. Eric Kazansky, welcome to the Radical Health Rubber Podcast. Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Lee. Appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great to have you on, eric, and to kick things off, could you share your educational and professional background and what motivated you to become interested in helping people with thyroid issues?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my background is actually a chiropractor and I graduated in 1999 and had a traditional chiropractic practice for I guess about eight, seven and a half, eight years and was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and eventually Graves' disease and then just was able to, in a nutshell, restore my health and do it without taking the antithyroid medication that's commonly recommended, and just was really passionate about helping others with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions and I could get more in the store if you want me to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, please do.
Speaker 1:Oh sure, so yeah, so I mean this happened in 2000,. 2007 actually is when it started, when I was dieting and detoxifying and I was trying to lose weight. I was a little bit overweight at the time and I was successful in losing weight, but little did I know that a lot of the weight loss was related to hyperthyroidism. I ended up losing a total of 42 pounds and I didn't weigh that much. I mean I wasn't that much overweight, that much. I mean I wasn't that much overweight. I was like 182, trying to get down to like the 160s, but went below that.
Speaker 1:And one day I was walking around in a retail store and they have those automated blood pressure cuffs and I took my blood pressure, which was fine, but my resting heart rate was 90, which obviously a little bit on the higher end. So the next few days I would just manually check my heart rate was anywhere between 90 and 110 beats per minute, and so I realized something was up and went up and went to see a primary care doctor who diagnosed me with hyperthyroidism. A few months later was able to get in for an appointment with the endocrinologist, and she's the one that officially diagnosed me with Graves' disease, and at that time I wasn't too familiar with hyperthyroidism Graves' disease, other than what I learned at some conferences. And when I attended conferences back then they were always nutritional conferences like to get my CE credits, my continuing education credits, and I did attend a couple of functional endocrinology seminars that spoke about thyroid health and natural methods for hyperthyroidism, graves, for Hashimoto's. Little did I know I would need those approaches for myself. I did attend those because I realized that there is a natural option and I didn't know if it would work. I was skeptical because I was the first one I really knew who had Graves' disease.
Speaker 1:But I, yeah, I made some changes from a diet perspective, did some functional medicine testing, took some supplements and into this was fall 2008 when I started after the diagnosis from the endocrinologist, and then into 2009, continued to working on restoring my health. And, yeah, so I've been in remission. Some will say I'm cured Again. I mean because there is a genetic component. I usually I'm hesitant to say I'm permanently cured, even though I feel like I'm cured. But since 2009, I've been feeling great. I mean, I've had some health scares, like chronic Lyme disease, for example, and a few other shingles and some cases where I thought maybe I would relapse, but thankfully I didn't and, like I said, I've been helping people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions ever since, since 2009.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the audience. Could you explain what Graves' disease is, because obviously some people listening to this may not know what Graves' disease is. Could you explain what that is?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Graves' disease is an autoimmune condition that affects the thyroid gland. So what happens that there's actually two types of autoimmune thyroid conditions? The more common one is Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which again involves the thyroid, but it's more of an immune system condition and so with just to compare with Hashimoto's, you have the immune system attacking the thyroid gland, damaging the thyroid and that over time can lead to the thyroid hormones getting low and eventually out of range, lead to hypothyroidism. So what graves? It's the immune system attacking the TSH receptors of the thyroid and this leads to the excess production of thyroid hormones. So it's not destroying the thyroid, damaging the thyroid like the immune system is in Hashimoto's. It's more like stimulating the thyroid and that's excess stimulation, leads to thyroid hormone production and too much thyroid hormone production and that on a blood test that would present as elevated T3, t4, tsh, which is thyroid stimulating hormone, and that's a pituitary hormone, will be undetectable just because it's trying to tell the thyroid that we don't want to produce any thyroid hormone, whereas, like with Hashimoto's, the opposite, usually you see TSH on the higher side and thyroid hormone levels on the lower side, so TSH is high to communicate to the thyroid gland to produce more thyroid hormone.
Speaker 1:But yeah, as far as like symptoms I mentioned, I had the elevated resting heart rate. I had heart palpitations, tremors. I mentioned the weight loss which is pretty common with hyperthyroidism Not everybody, but it is one of the classic symptoms Anxiety, insomnia, some other symptoms, sometimes loose stools. So it's kind of accelerating everything, whereas again Hashimoto's the opposite. You get that lowered metabolism, so you get weight gain, fatigue, coldness, whereas again with Graves, everything is pretty much sped up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the thyroid is pretty much sped up. Yeah, because the thyroid is, um, it's pretty much like an accelerator pedal on on a well, it's kind of like the accelerator on a brake, isn't it so graves disease accelerators stuck on, whereas with hashimoto's it's more like the handbrake is stuck on, kind of thing as an analogy yeah, essentially, yeah, you, yeah, you're right and it's, I mean, a scary condition to deal with when you have that elevated resting heart rate.
Speaker 1:And then you go on the internet and you read about things such as thyroid storm, which is a medical emergency when thyroid hormones are really high and you're not appropriately managing the hyperthyroidism and, again, in rare cases, but in some cases it again can be lethal, like it can be fatal. So it is important even though I take a natural approach, or took a natural approach and recommend a natural approach to my patients there is a time and place for anti-thyroid medication such as mithimazole. I mean, you do want to be safe while addressing a cause of the problem. So I'm definitely not opposed to the medication.
Speaker 1:The problem with Graves is that most practitioners, including endocrinologists, will usually recommend, in addition to the medication they commonly recommend, either radioactive iodine, which ablates the thyroid gland, pretty much destroys the cells of the thyroid, or thyroid surgery, which of course involves removing the thyroid gland and not to say there isn't a time and place for that. But again, the problem is with Graves. It's an immune system condition. So if you kill the thyroid or remove the thyroid, you're not doing anything to address the cost of the problem. You're helping with the thyroid problem. Yes, if you remove the thyroid gland, you're not going to have hyperthyroidism anymore, but you're going to still have the autoimmune component and the concern with that at least one of the concerns is someone who has one autoimmune condition is more likely to develop other autoimmune conditions as well. So the person is more likely to develop other autoimmune conditions as well. So the person yeah, they might develop Hashimoto's or rheumatoid arthritis or lupus or, as you know, so many other autoimmune conditions one can develop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So the important thing really is you've got to treat the root cause of the problem rather than just treating the symptom of the problem, so to speak.
Speaker 1:That is correct. Yes, definitely. Yeah, just treating the symptom of the problem, so to speak.
Speaker 2:That is correct. Yes, definitely. Yeah, now the other thing as well. Maybe we can just touch on and maybe we'll go into more detail towards the end. But can you just talk a little bit about?
Speaker 1:the books that you've written as well? Sure, so in 2011, I wrote my first book Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Gravesve Disease, and then, a couple of years later, 2013, I came out with the second edition of that, and then just recently, in fall of 2023, I updated it a third time, and so a third edition is out that so, 10 years later, after the second edition, I finally updated it again, also have the audiobook version of that out as well on Audible. And then, 2018, I wrote my first book on Hashimoto's, hashimoto's Triggers and that goes into detail all the different triggers that can cause Hashimoto's. And then, in spring of 2024, I came out with another book on hyperthyroidism called the hyperthyroid healing diet, which talks about some of the different diet options that could help people with hyperthyroidism.
Speaker 2:So those are the three thyroid related books that I've written yeah, amazing it's, it's um, it's not often I get someone in my podcast that's written all many, almost as many books as I have. So, uh, so well, well done on that. I know I know how much hard work goes into writing books, but I've never got around to writing a second edition. That's yeah, that's just that's. For me that's just going too far. But but well done to you for doing that, because I know you know, as soon as you write a book, you know six weeks later there might be something in there and you think, oh, that's been updated, now I need to change that. But yeah, I've learned to let go in life, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I guess also with the reasoning the third time maybe not a good reason the second time because it was only two years later. But the third time I decided to do it, 10 years later, was also I wanted to do the audio book and I could have just recorded the did the audio book for the second edition. But I'm like you know, if I'm going to record the audio book version then I might as well just update it. And I mean it definitely took work. It's not as much work as writing a new book, but um, but yeah, I probably still took like five, six months to go through it again and just update the research and all that. So it definitely was work. But yeah, I don't know if there'll be a fourth edition anytime in the future, but, um, yeah, that's the reason why I did decide to revise it a third time.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well done. Well done for that. Um, so the kind of main topic I guess I wanted to speak to you about is why is it that, or how is it that gut health plays a role in the health of the thyroid? Are you struggling with digestive issues, fatigue or simply feeling like your body isn't performing at its best? Well, let me tell you about Victoria.
Speaker 2:Victoria came to me to prepare for her second London marathon, looking to optimize her fueling and improve her performance. What we uncovered went beyond her training plan. Through our work together, we discovered that Victoria had been living with a range of food intolerances that were impacting her health, something she had dealt with for over 20 years. She was unaware that symptoms like bloating, discomfort and fatigue were signs of serious food sensitivities. After running tests, we identified that she was gluten intolerant and sensitive to egg whites and soya.
Speaker 2:Once we removed those foods and focused on her unique metabolic type, victoria started seeing incredible changes. She lost weight, has a permanently flat stomach and is living pain-free. Her energy levels are higher, her skin is clearer and she feels better than ever. Now Victoria enjoys her favorite treats in moderation, because health isn't about perfection, it's about balance. She's happier, healthier and living a life free from the discomforts that used to hold her back. If you're ready to uncover what's really going on with your health, let's work together to create a personalized plan that will transform how you feel. Reach out today at wwwbodycheckcouk and start your journey to a healthier, happier you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, as you know, there's the saying all health starts in the gut and there's a few different ways that having a healthy gut is important when it comes to having thyroid health I mean. So most thyroid conditions are autoimmune. So I mentioned my experience with Graves. I spoke briefly about Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is another autoimmune condition. So, depending on the resource where you read, it'll be anywhere like 90, 95% of thyroid conditions are autoimmune, again through the research. So that means 90 to 95% of people with hyperthyroidism have Graves, 90 to 95% of people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's. And so you want to do everything to optimize the immune system, to optimize the thyroid, the health of the thyroid. So one of the ways you do that is by having a healthy gut, and there's a few reasons for that. One reason, as you know, is that most of the immune system cells, or at least the majority, like 70, again depends on the source you read, but 70 is that most of the immune system cells, or at least the majority, like 70, again depends on the source you read but 70 to 80% of the immune cells are located in the gastrointestinal tract.
Speaker 1:And then there's also what's called the triad of autoimmunity, also known as the three-legged stool of autoimmunity, and according to this triad, there are three components necessary for autoimmune to develop. One is a genetic predisposition, which obviously we can't do anything to change our genetics. We can do things to modify the expression of our genes through diet and lifestyle, but there's the genetics, there's exposure to one or more environmental triggers and we could definitely talk more about the different triggers that could impact our health and be an autoimmune trigger but also affect the gut, which again we're talking about here, the relationship between gut and thyroid. So, again, triggers. Third is that increase in intestinal permeability, which is that medical term for a le gut.
Speaker 1:So, according again to the literature, it seems that having that leaky gut is also necessary for autoimmunity to develop, and so if you have that leaky gut, that's going to play a role in development of Graves and Hashimoto's, along with again having the genetic predisposition as well as exposure to one or more environmental triggers, and then, like I said, the immune system cells being located in the gut as well is a factor.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's not, I wouldn't say, a direct relationship as far as the gut and the thyroid, but since, again, most thyroid conditions are autoimmune, it really is I don't want to say impossible, but almost impossible to reverse autoimmunity if you don't have a healthy gut. And again we can make the argument that maybe it is impossible to reverse autoimmunity without having it. And maybe when we say a healthy gut, again it doesn't mean it's going to be 100% perfect, like if you do a comprehensive stool panel and you still see, you might still see some minor dysbiosis which is imbalance in the gut flora, but if you have some severe gut disturbances then it really is going to be difficult to reverse that autoimmune component of Graves and Hashimoto's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and with the intestinal permeability side of it. Obviously, if the gut is leaky, which is what permeability means, then there are things getting into the bloodstream that shouldn't really be getting in there, whether it's under undigested food particles or whether it's certain toxins or whatever it might be. And then obviously this, the job of the immune system, is to attack and deal with things that it doesn't identify as being human. So if, if the food isn't getting broken down properly, it won't be recognizing, let's say, amino acids, it might be recognizing let's just call it a lump of steak. It probably wouldn't be a lump of steak, but you get the idea. Or it might be. Certain toxins, might be endotoxins from the bacteria in the gut, let's say. That's creating an immune response and then potentially creating systemic inflammation. Is that really, at least in part, a summary of the mechanism that could well be causing the autoimmunity?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you did good. So yeah, I would say like you said. I mean, if you have that increased permeability, you're going to have food, potentially again food particles, like you said, you would talk about endotoxins, like lipopolysaccharides that could play a role. So all these things can pass through the intestinal barrier when they normally shouldn't. And you're absolutely right, that will cause immune system activation, systemic inflammation, and this definitely plays a big role when it comes to autoimmunity and, again, not just not just graves hashimoto's, but other autoimmune conditions as well yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So in your view, what would you say? What's the difference between immunity and autoimmunity?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, immunity is. I mean we need a healthy immune system. We need you know, when you do a blood count it's called, you know, cbc. I think UK just might be called blood count. But either way, when we look at like white blood cells and a breakdown, like neutrophils, lymphocytes, eosinophils, basophils, monocytes, I mean, again, those are a part of a normal immune system.
Speaker 1:And the immune system has many different functions. One is to protect us from illnesses, for example like viruses. I mean, and we could talk more about viruses, but I think more about viruses like COVID Epstein-Barr is more of an immune system problem than a virus problem. And so, yeah, immune system is with autoimmunity. It's an abnormal response. Our body's not supposed to attack our own tissues of the body. Or again, maybe in graves it's not like damaging but still stimulating the TSH receptors. So again, it's not with immunity.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing we want to have healthy immunity, for again, for protection and as we age it's important, whereas autoimmunity it's the opposite. Obviously it's having a negative effect on our bodily tissues. And again, it goes beyond just Graves and Hashimoto's but other autoimmune conditions. I mean certainly there are autoimmune conditions worse than Hashimoto's and Graves that really could be. I mean not that Graves and Hashimoto's can't be debilitating, but these other, some autoimmune conditions I mean rheumatoid arthritis in severe cases, you know can really be debilitating. Again Sjogren's disease, I mean MS, of course. So again, autoimmunities. There's really I wouldn't say anything positive about autoimmunity whereas to have natural immunity, that's what everybody wants. You want to have that healthy, thriving immune system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's a couple of things when I kind of look at autoimmunity. I kind of look at the first thing is it's almost like an over stimulation of the immune system, and then the second part of it is something that's going wrong in terms of identifying self and non-self, because obviously the immune system is there to attack non-self, but with autoimmunity the immune system is attacking self. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1:to immunity, the immune system is attacking self. Would you agree with that? Yeah, exactly. So that's exactly what's happening and, again, there's still a lot that we don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a lot that we've learned over the years about autoimmunity, but, yeah, as you said, distinguishing self from non-self there's, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with, like molecular mimicry, where the body gets confused, where, like the amino acids from like, for example, infections, certain infections can have an amino acid sequence similar to, or certain infections have a sequence similar to our amino acids to, or certain infections have a sequence similar to our amino acids, and so the body kind of mistakes the infection for and that causes damage to the part of the body. Same thing with environmental toxins. So, yeah, I mean he said it in a simple, simple way and it's true like pretty much self versus non-self kind of determining and things. Um, when it comes to autoimmunity, you know, the system just uh, to put it in lay terms, gets all out of whack and the body, you know, no longer has that ability to distinguish self from, from, you know, a non-self yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the first time I come across cell mimicry was I think it was Lauren Cordain wrote a paper about gluten and how synovial fluid in joints has a DNA that's a sensitivity to gluten. The immune system obviously will start attacking gluten cells in your bloodstream, but then it will also start attacking synovial, or synovium, in your joints, right. So then the very act of eating gluten-containing foods could cause an arthritic type condition, or at least pain in the joints. I had someone on the podcast recently that kind of didn't believe that that was accurate or true. I can't remember the reasoning behind it, but what's your stance? Do you believe that that is a true and accurate statement?
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting you mention that. I don't know if you're familiar with Dr Datis Karazian.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he used to be bigger in the thyroid space. He has a book on Hashimoto's, also has a brain-based book that I think was released in like 2016. That I think was released in like 2016. And so, but very, very knowledgeable, as he's taught for the Institute of Functional Medicine. If you're familiar with Cyrex Labs I don't know if he's still on the board for Cyrex, but he, or at least was affiliated with Cyrex Labs, like helping with some of their panels and so he actually mentioned that with the thyroid too, at one time, where the amino acid sequence of gluten is similar, like some of the proteins in gluten, similar to like the amino acid sequence of the thyroid.
Speaker 1:So there's the possibility that if someone eats gluten, that the immune system will get confused. And again, I'm sure he didn't say exactly like this, but essentially what you're saying about the synovial joints, that if someone eats gluten, that in a case of mistaken identity, the body instead of attacking the gluten will attack the thyroid. Now I did look in the research and I mean from a research perspective, like in PubMed I could not find anything to prove that. Now that doesn't mean that it's not the case. Same thing with the synovial joints that I haven't researched so I don't know if there is that relationship.
Speaker 1:But and that's that's what I was saying, you know, there's so much about the body that we don't know. Some of this is theory and then, years from now, some of this will be proven to be right, some of it will be proven to be wrong and we'll have different theories. But yeah, I mean, it does sound like a viable theory. Whether or not that's the case I'm not sure, but either way, I recommend for people I work with to avoid gluten, not just for that reason but, as we both know, gluten also could affect that permeability of the gut. So, besides, maybe it does directly cause damage or cause the immune system to directly damage the synovial joints, maybe even the thyroid. But even if it doesn't have that effect, it could affect permeability of the gut, which is part of that triad of autoimmunity, and could therefore even indirectly lead to that autoimmune response.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, gluten has been suggested to stimulate the release of zonulin, hasn't it in the lining of the gut wall, which again which opens up those tight junctions and increases that permeability, at least in some people anyway. So that backs up what you were saying. So would you say it's possible to heal the gut without having a healing effect on the thyroid?
Speaker 1:So would it be possible to heal the gut and not have a beneficial effect on the thyroid?
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Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I would say, in the case of Graves, hashimoto's, no, Now there might be other things that you need to do. So I will say that if you're going to, if someone focuses on healing the gut, without question it will benefit those with Graves and Hashimoto's. The question, though, is, if you heal the gut alone, is that going to heal the thyroid or reverse autoimmunity and, in turn, heal the thyroid? And I mean the answer is no, for I mean there's a few reasons. One is that there could be other imbalances in the body. Now we could say, like nutrient deficiencies. Someone has nutrient deficiencies, maybe that's related to the gut.
Speaker 1:So you correct the gut, you heal the gut and then, in turn, correct the nutrient deficiencies, but then there could be other factors that are playing a role as well, like increased toxic load and a lot of these toxins. Out there are toxins, toxicants, you know. They could actually, in turn, affect the thyroid. I'm sorry, affect, well, affect. They kind of actually affect the thyroid as endocrine disrupting chemicals, but also some of them can affect the gut as well, the permeability, but then, besides affecting the gut, like I said, some of them could also affect the thyroid. So, even if you have a healthy gut and if there are certain toxins that are affecting the thyroid gland, that so yeah, having a healthy gut definitely is important for Graves and Hashimoto's and again other autoimmune conditions, but it doesn't always resolve the thyroid condition just by healing the gut, because you might need to address other imbalances, like adrenals I mean in my case, stress was a big factor, and again, we could make the connection, while the adrenal stress will also affect the gut, so we could put the pieces together.
Speaker 1:Regardless of what we're saying, whether it's toxins, toxicants, adrenals, it all correlates to the gut health, but I guess I just don't want anybody to think all you have to do is just heal the gut and you don't have to worry about some of these other imbalances and other areas, because I think, just as you know, we want to look at the whole body, and the gut, though, definitely plays a big role in this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. So would you agree that it would be fair to say that one of the foundations, one of the essentials, if you like, for a healthy thyroid would be a healthy gut? Yeah?
Speaker 1:100%.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, yeah, yes yeah, 100, oh, 100, yeah, yes, and then another let's call it again, let's call them foundations would be uh, how can I put it right? I don't want to. I don't want to necessarily say it's the adrenal glands, but you, you want to be in a let's call it a parasympathetic state most of the time, rather than in a sympathetic state. Yes, that would be important. And then you would probably need to minimize, first of all, toxic load and possibly optimize the release of toxins that you've already accumulated in the body. Would that be fair? Yeah, that would be fair. Okay, optimize the release of toxins that you've already accumulated in the body, would that? Would that be fair? Yeah?
Speaker 2:that that would be fair okay, and would there be anything else to add?
Speaker 1:add to that in your experience um, in addition to having a like, being parasympathetic more, more parasympathetic dominant, and then having reduced toxic burden, and then I mean the three, three things that I talk about, kind of what we just said.
Speaker 1:So, and again, not to say it's only those three things, but yeah, having healthy adrenals, you know, parasympathetic more, more parasympathetic dominance than sympathetic dominance, reduced toxic burden, healthy gut, most of these other things we could tie into these things. So, again, like the nutrient deficiencies, again, not to say it's always related to the gut, maybe it's, again, if we have increased toxic burden, that's also going to require the use of more nutrients. You know as well, mitochondria, of course, important, for I mean very dependent on nutrients. But yeah, like I said, we could tie, we could pretty much interrelate all three of these together and I mean, I say in a simplistic term, healthy liver. Healthy I mean healthy adrenals, healthy gut, healthy liver, and I mean in most cases you're going to have healthy immune system, healthy thyroid yeah, and again, in terms of nutrients, you probably need to be eating a good diet as well, right?
Speaker 2:so high quality foods, unprocessed foods you know and avoid, you know avoiding you know, avoiding your simple sugars and possibly, you know, flowers made from grain and your seed oils and all those kind of things as well that you know can potentially deplete your nutrient content.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly unhealthy oils. You're not getting enough nutrients, not getting enough protein, then you could try to do other things to heal the gut and again, it's obviously not going to correct the nutrient deficiencies if you're not getting enough nutrients from the food you eat. So you're right. I mean same thing with the stress. I mean we have to incorporate stress management techniques, maybe incorporate some vagus nerve exercises for that try to get that parasympathetic dominant state. So yeah, that's where diet and lifestyle play such a key role in having healthy adrenals, healthy liver, healthy gut key role in having healthy adrenals, healthy liver, healthy gut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I guess the other thing that would be important as well is it's not just eating the right foods, but being able to digest and assimilate those foods so that you do have the nutrients available right, which again means things like you know, having enough hydrochloric acid in the stomach and having enough digestive enzymes from the pancreas or wherever, and also having enough bioacids to break down your fats. And again, they're closely linked not just to the food that you eat but the stress that you're under as well, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you're right. I mean, if you're in a state of chronic stress, that will affect these, especially the stomach acid. So many people have low stomach acid and the question is, why do so many people have low stomach acid? And there could be factors like H pylori which could affect the gut. Also could be a factor in Graves-Hashimoto's. Even the literature shows a potential correlation between H pylori in Graves and Hashimoto's. But again, stress, just being stressed out all the time, could definitely affect the stomach acid. But you're right, I mean that ties into which you know, obviously you're familiar with, like the 5R protocol, and I mean you got one of those. What you just mentioned was the replace component of that 5-R protocol where you want to replace digestive enzymes, replace stomach acid when it's low, replace those bile salts, even like dietary fiber, falls under that replace component of the 5-R protocol. So yeah, you need to incorporate all of those components the remove, the, the replace, the re-inoculate, the repair. And then we spoke and talked about the parasympathetic nervous system.
Speaker 2:that falls into that fifth r, that rebalance yeah, yeah, and I guess, leading on from that, to ensure you've got enough hydrochloric acid, you also need to be optimally hydrated as well. Right, because otherwise you won't have the fluid to create the acid within the first place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, drinking, I mean mostly, if not all, water. I mean I drink some herbal teas as well. I can't say I exclusively drink water but, yeah, definitely want to stay hydrated. Of course the quality of the water is important as well. Try to stay away from tap water as well as bottled water, not just from a hydrate. I mean this ties into our conversation because the xenoestrogens from the bottled water can not only negatively affect the gut which of course that increased that permeability of the gut, which can increase that permeability of the gut but also you're dealing with endocrine disruptors. So that's the case where those xenoestrogens can affect the gut, which can affect the immune system and lead to, or at least be a contributing factor in Graves Hashimoto's. But then also, if you are drinking out of plastic water bottles all the time, that could also disrupt the thyroid gland directly.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying that, I mean if I'm out of town or something. I mean it's not like I never 100% avoid plastic bottles, but I try my best. I mean even now, like you could bring your own water bottles on. I mean you can't have them filled, but you could bring them. I mean you could bring them to the airport and they do have. I mean, they're probably not the best filters but they, you know they have now, like at least here they have at some of the airports, some of the filters at the airports and other places. Again, is that better than drinking bottle water, like where they're filtering everything? But you're still dealing with the plastic. Again, it's debatable, but I'm definitely not a big fan of the plastics because of the impact it could have on, again, both the gut and the thyroid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just to clarify, because I'm sure this is what you meant. If you're buying a good quality water and you're buying it in a glass bottle, that's a different story, because obviously it's not going to be leaching the xenoestrogens.
Speaker 1:Oh, correct. Yes, If you're buying it, that's yeah. So I recommend if you're going to buy it in a bottle by glass. It's just that these days so many people still buy plastic water bottles by the case days or even a week or so, you know again, that's probably not, it's not going to be the end of the world, but it's those who are drinking again out of, yes, specifically plastic water bottles day in, day out, and especially their children. I mean, I'm not saying that's the reason why more and more children have these conditions, but I think it is a contributing factor, along with other environmental toxicants that we're exposed to on a regular basis. So, yes, glass water bottle, like here United States have, mountain Valley Springs is one of the brands of spring, good quality spring water that comes in a glass bottle. So if you're drinking that, that's fine. Or if you're filtering your own water and then putting it in a stainless steel or glass bottle of your own, that's perfectly fine yeah, yeah, I uh.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I'll go away for a week or two weeks where I'm teaching courses and um, in the uk that is, and I actually take my. I've got a countertop water filter. I actually take that with me. People think I'm crazy, but it means I can access the best quality water that I can get. But yeah, I mean, if I was flying somewhere, obviously I wouldn't be able to take my water filter and if it's a relatively short period of time, I wouldn't feel about, you know, drinking evion or fiji water or something like that, um, which is a good quality water. But obviously, yeah, the plastic's not not ideal but, like you say, if it's just for a short period of time, it's probably not going to do too much harm, if any. But yeah, it's the day in, day out consistency where you really want to be. You know, be not exposing yourself to those xenoestrogens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we spoke about some of the factors that can potentially disrupt the gut microbiome. Is there anything else that you wanted to add to that that people should be aware of?
Speaker 1:Other factors that can disrupt the gut microbiome?
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Speaker 1:I know we didn't get specific, so I don't know if you wanted to get specific. Yeah, I mean because we said in general, like there, I mean we did get specific with gluten and I mean I mentioned like xenoestrogen, so there were a few specifics. But I mean there are other foods that can potentially impact the gut as well. There's, besides gluten grains in some cases could be kind of harsh, especially corn. There is some research showing that corn can have like a gluten-like effect and potentially affect permeability of the gut. Again, not saying that there's not a time and place for grains and gluten-free grains when someone's in a healthier state, I can't say I never eat some rice or some quinoa, which is a pseudo grain, but when I eat grains I typically try to make sure they're gluten-free. But when you're healing they could be a little bit harsh on the gut. I don't know if you'd say really a trigger, but again, could at the very least in some cases affect gut healing. Is what I find we know about alcohol. Alcohol definitely can increase permeability of the gut and so if someone's healing, even if they even something like red wine, which I'll get a lot of people asking well, can I have it just like a glass or two of red wine per week, some sometimes per day, but but per day is definitely a no, I mean per week. Is it going to prevent someone from healing? I mean, everybody's different so some people might be able to get away from get away with it. But I would still say, to play it safe, you probably want to refrain from drinking all alcohol when trying to heal your gut. The exception might be depending on what recommendations I'm giving. If someone's taking an herbal extract and it has, like if it has some ethanol in it, like it's usually like such a tiny amount that it's not going to, again in my experience it doesn't seem like it's prevents, preventing someone from healing. But as far as like drinking alcohol for recreation, I would say to take a break from that Sugar. We know sugar can be an issue and again, I don't know if sugar directly increases permeability. Some say it does, some say it doesn't. But it can increase yeast. It could cause yeast overgrowth, candida overgrowth, other types of yeast which that can affect permeability of the gut and of course can cause blood sugar imbalances and there's some evidence that just having like blood sugar imbalances could also lead to permeability of the gut. So, again, minimizing sugar, especially the processed sugars or refined sugars, nightshade. So at least in the autoimmunity world there's some controversy when it comes to nightshades. So we'll talk about tomatoes, eggplant, white potatoes, peppers, that they could also maybe affect permeability of the gut or, at the very least, cause inflammation, prevent someone from healing. Again, we'll talk about some healthy. I mean there's definitely health benefits of these foods and some people seem to do okay, some people they're not okay when doing it. Again, I usually recommend taking a break from them while healing, just to kind of play it safe. It's not something I recommend for most people to avoid permanently, but from a yeah.
Speaker 1:So food standpoint. I mean, there's dairy. You know I skipped over dairy, which is, of course, commonly recommended, also along with gluten, to avoid. I couldn't find anything in the research like really being specific about gluten causing leaky gut, causing increased permeability. But people definitely have sensitivities.
Speaker 1:A lot of people have sensitivities to dairy and we could argue well if there's healthier forms of dairy, like raw dairy or dairy from a cow or sheep I'm sorry, from a sheep or a goat but I do recommend also taking a break from dairy while healing. So those are some of the foods that potentially could have a negative effect on the gut. Some of them are in the research, some of them are more theory and maybe just because maybe they won't necessarily cause a leaky gut but can cause inflammation, which could indirectly maybe not cause a leaky gut, but still we don't want inflammation in the body if we could avoid that. But yeah, so those are some of the foods. I could talk about some of the other factors, but I didn't know if you had anything to add to the foods that I just mentioned.
Speaker 1:No no, no, carry on. Okay, so let's talk about toxins, toxicants. Again, toxicants are kind of man-made, so, like again the xenoestrogens we're talking about. Toxins like mycotoxins from molds would be an example of a toxin. And and not every toxin and toxicant can negatively affect the gut. At least I don't think that's the case. But according to the research, xenoestrogens can, as I mentioned earlier, and this includes things like bisphenol A or BPA, phthalates, flame retardants we refer to microplastics these days which could be a factor.
Speaker 1:Heavy metals such as mercury can affect the gut permeability of the gut and also can directly affect the thyroid as well. And then I think, when I was doing my research, cadmium has been shown to affect permeability. I mean others, like aluminum, definitely affect immune system. I don't know if aluminum affects permeability. It wouldn't be surprising if it does. I just couldn't find anything where aluminum and even lead again, I forgot if that directly causes permeability. Obviously, even if it doesn't affect the gut directly, there are other harmful effects of these heavy metals. So you want to uh, try to minimize exposure. Really with all these. It's just a matter of trying to reducing exposure. And then I mean we could do things to detoxify. But glyphosate, the active ingredient in the herbicide roundup. So that could definitely, at the very least, can cause dysbiosis and balance in the gut flora.
Speaker 1:Certain medications so we know about antibiotics. And then there's acid blockers that could affect permeability of the gut, not to mention also your blocking acid, which is important for digesting, breaking down the minerals and the protein. But then antithyroid medication has been shown to affect permeability of the gut. So antithyroid medications, methimazole and PTU and in the UK they actually use carbamazole which converts into methamazole. So yeah, so those in the research do show that they can affect the gut barrier in a negative way, and so it doesn't mean that people should never take antithyroid medication. Again, it's like antibiotics there's a time and place, risk versus benefits. I do have a good number of people on the antithyroid medication and the goal is to try to improve, in the case of Graves' disease, their immune system health, so they need less and less of the antithyroid medication. So again, there is that time and place, but I thought it was important to mention it. On the other hand, thyroid hormone replacement does not increase permeability. So if someone is listening to this, watching this, and if they have Hashimoto's, then again, if you need to take thyroid hormone replacement. Not everybody does, that's not a concern, but the antithyroid medication can have that effect.
Speaker 1:And then I mentioned mycotoxins from molds. There is some evidence that mycotoxins can affect permeability of the gut as well. And again, you can't possibly avoid all of these. There are too many toxins and toxicants out there. But you can do things to minimize your exposure. So we spoke earlier about trying not to drink out of plastic water bottles, at least on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:And then there are other sources of plastics as well. It goes beyond the water bottles. And then I mean heavy metals. There's I mean some people still have like the silver fillings, mercury, amalgams, and so that could be a source. Even the methylmercury in fish could be a concern. And again, everybody has their own perspective. Well, should we completely avoid the seafood or should we just minimize the seafood? I can't say I eat a lot of seafood, but I think, again, most people could have a few servings of not larger fish like swordfish, but things like salmon, sardines. Again, you're not going to escape the heavy metals. And then there's other things like microplastics. That's the problem, it's not just the heavy metals when it comes to the seafood. So yeah, but like I said, we can make that argument with a lot of foods too. There's so many toxins in our food. We just need to try our best. The glyphosate I'm not sure Is glyphosate an issue in the uk, like it is here in the united states.
Speaker 2:So they passed a law in 1999 to ban gmo foods in the uk. Now I don't know if that's still the case, but they definitely sell glyphosate as a weed killer for your lawn. Now whether they use it on farms, I'm not 100 sure. When I last looked it was illegal, but I kind of think they probably are using it okay my guess is they probably are, whether it's legal or not.
Speaker 2:I don't. I'm not 100 sure, but my guess would be that they probably are, whether it's legal or not. I'm not 100% sure, but my guess would be that they probably are. They're definitely selling it in stores for people to put on their lawn, that's for sure. But I think it's less of a problem, certainly in the US. But yeah, not as much of an issue, but it might still be an issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure you heard this, but when having a gluten conversation, some wonder is it more of a glyphosate problem? Especially because there's people who have problems with wheat, in the United States, for example, and then they go overseas Maybe the UK, maybe somewhere else overseas and they eat some pasta that's not gluten-free and they feel perfectly fine and you can't always go by symptoms. But the story for some of these people is that they felt horrible eating the wheat in the United States but not elsewhere. So the question is, was it the wheat that was the problem in these situations? Obviously, wheat is a big problem with a lot of people, but in some situations is it more of a glyphosate issue? So I was just curious if over there so it sounds like that it was banned they still use it in rounds up for the lawns, not supposed to be in food, but it sounds like you're questioning whether or not it really is.
Speaker 1:As far as the GMOs, so, yeah, but I mean eating organic will help. I mean here it's not going to completely eliminate the glyphosate, but obviously you just want to do everything you can to minimize your exposure to glyphosate again, along with other toxins. The mold I mentioned is a big issue. A lot of people have mold and they don't know about it because they don't have any sign of water damage in their home. But it could be behind walls, it could be underneath floors and it could also come from the food.
Speaker 1:It's not only airborne mold, so that could be kind of like a hidden leaky gut trigger, just the mold that you're missing, or again the mycotoxins from the mold. And so those are some of the factors. When it comes to toxins, toxicants, there's infections, so certain infections can affect permeability of the gut. We have uh, you know I mentioned H pylori, which the concern with H pylori is not the effects only on the permeability of the gut but again, it also blocks stomach acid production. And there's definitely controversy when it comes to H pylori. Some will say don't treat it, it's it's commensal, it's fine. Others will say don't treat it, it's commensal, it's fine. Others will say, yes, you want to treat it. I mean, as I mentioned earlier, there are multiple studies in PubMed showing correlation between H pylori in Graves and Hashimoto's and I realize correlation doesn't always mean causation, but when I see it in my patients I do recommend treating it Now. I usually don't recommend the therapies that they give because it's my patients. I do recommend treating it Now. I usually don't recommend the therapies that they give because it's multiple antibiotics like triple therapy, quadruple therapy, so that I recommend, if at all possible, avoiding. Again, I'm not saying there's never a time and place for that, but I would recommend trying to treat it naturally using certain natural agents for H pylori. And then there's parasites that potentially can again some debate. Some will say treat everybody for parasites. Others will say selectively treat people for parasites, but definitely in some cases parasites could have a negative effect on the gut. Do they have a negative effect on the gut in all cases? Again, questionable, not just my opinion but other experts I've had on my podcast. So yeah, but those are some of the factors. And then there's, you know I mentioned, yeast overgrowth, so candida and other yeast. And then there's SIBO, small intestinal bacteria overgrowth, which is too much bacteria in the wrong place, which is the small intestine. Most of the bacteria should be in the large intestine. So yeah, all these factors I mean this is an all-inclusive.
Speaker 1:There are other toxins I didn't mention, other infections that I didn't mention, like Giardia is another one that comes to mind that can affect permeability. I mean there's, I'm sure, other foods. I mean there are things also we just don't know about too that we'll find out in the future, that maybe we think now is okay to eat or get exposed to but potentially can increase permeability. But again, you can't avoid all these.
Speaker 1:All you could do is just minimize exposure to environmental toxins, infections, again trying to optimize the health of your gut, whether again, because, like I said, there's some that will say you want to live in harmony with things like H pylori, others will say you want to eradicate it. But either way, even if you treat H pylori and get rid of it, it's not like you can never get it again. So it is really all about having a healthy gut. Healthy, like you said, healthy enzymes, healthy stomach acid, healthy, a good number of good flora, the bile acids. All these things help to also keep negative I mean help to keep the more harmful bacteria in shag or again like normal bacteria from becoming opportunistic in the gut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, for people listening it might sound like, oh geez, there's so much that can go wrong, there's so much that can affect me, but actually when you look at it it's actually quite simple, right? So in the system that I use, we have six foundation factors and they and they, and they're in a hierarchical sequence. Number one is positive thoughts you could put, you know, not being too stressed. Within that as well, I would say say. Two is optimal breathing. Again, that's going to come with stress too, right? If you're stressed, you generally breathe too fast. So slowing your breathing down and use your diaphragm to breathe rather than your chest and shoulder muscles, what I call your accessory respiratory muscles. Optimal hydration is three, optimal nutrition is four, optimal movement is five and optimum sleep and rest is three. Optimal nutrition is four, Optimal movement is five and optimum sleep and rest is six. Keep it simple.
Speaker 2:And then if you want to, you know, obviously choose good products to put on your skin or on your hair. If you had hair unlike us two, if you had hair unlike us too, or if you wanted to, you know, make sure you're using minimal toxins in your home cleaning products and things like that. That would be a good thing to add on to those foundations. And then and then there are things that you can do if there are toxins in your body to help them come out as well. Again, you can, can be simple things.
Speaker 2:Exercise right, so toxins can come out through your skin via sweat. They can come out of your lungs via breath, right. Exercise is great for both those two. Sauna is really good. So there's some relatively simple things that people can do. So what I'm trying to say is it doesn't have to be complicated, right. You can. You can make it quite simple and kind of leading on for that and I know, I'm sure you know you treat every, every client as an individual case and everyone's different. But what kind of general approach do you take to heal the gut and the thyroid with people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I mean, first of all, I want to say those what you mentioned. The six factors that you just mentioned are, yeah, I mean I agree that the mindset we a lot of times tend to overlook having that positive mindset is extremely important, and also the movement too. I want to reinforce what you said. I mean, everything that you just mentioned was important but like, for example, someone who has constipation, that could be numerous causes of constipation. It could be now, it could be thyroid, it could be hypothyroidism that's causing constipation, Could be diet, but it also could be because you're just sitting all day and you're not moving, Because I find that when I move, like I now, we're sitting as we conduct this interview, but I do a lot of my work on a treadmill desk where I'm walking and working and that definitely, I know that helps to keep me regular as well, in addition to staying hydrated and eating well and everything else. But yeah, to get to back to the the question as far as the approach I take, so I definitely start with having people incorporate those diet and lifestyle factors. So, again, a lot of what you just said. So, diet, stress management, I mean the breathing is really important. So I'm glad you brought that up. The regular movements I also usually encourage like some type of like resistance exercise doesn't mean like heavy weightlifting or anything like that could be, but while healing, usually I'm not recommending that like to go really heavy, but just yeah, again, just doing things from a diet, stress management, sleep perspective, doing all the basics. That you pretty much said is where you start with, Because if you're not incorporating the basics it's really going to be difficult to heal.
Speaker 1:I do like to do testing. Again, I don't go crazy with the testing, but I usually do like to do some type of adrenal testing. I do comprehensive blood testing, looking at not just the blood count and metabolic panel and lipid panel, obviously thyroid and antibodies I look at, but also like vitamin D and B12 and an iron panel and inflammatory markers like CRP, homocysteine. And then it does depend on the person, so I can't say on everybody. I do gut testing. I mean some people. I mean I certainly do my share of comprehensive stool. Else might we need to do, in addition to having the person focus on a diet and lifestyle, what do we need to do to find some of the potential triggers and underlying imbalances? And then I mean based on the test results. In addition to diet and lifestyle, there might be some specific recommendations I give based on the test results.
Speaker 1:I mean for the healing of the gut, also that 5R protocol that I mentioned. So there's the remove, replace, re-inoculate, repair, rebalance. A lot of people overlook that first one, though Maybe not practitioners as much, but definitely. You see people who are taking digestive enzymes on their own and probiotics and they're drinking bone broth and it seems like they're doing everything and it's like, oh, my gut's not healing, why not? And it's because, well, maybe you haven't removed the factor that's disrupting the gut, whether it's gluten or, again, trying to minimize the exposure to those toxins and toxicants we mentioned. Maybe they have an underlying infection that's affecting the gut. So I definitely will incorporate that 5R protocol try to find the factor that's disrupting the gut while at the same time replacing whether it's low digestive enzymes or low stomach acid or bile salts Again, re-inoculate combination of prebiotics, probiotics, fermented foods, repairing with things yeah, like I think bone broth's great.
Speaker 1:There's a time and place also for some agents like glutamine and DGL, licorice and there are other things that could help support the gut. And then again, that rebalance through mind-body medicine, vagus nerve exercises, I mean. So one thing also with reducing toxic load. You mentioned sauna, which I love, sauna. I try to do infrared sauna three times a week, not just for reducing toxic load, but great for circulation and all that too. So so yeah, if someone can incorporate that, even though I will say, if someone has hyperthyroidism and if it's not managed, you want to be careful about going into the sauna, because the sauna will increase your heart rate.
Speaker 1:And so if someone already has an elevated heart rate you might want to get, you probably want to get that under control before going into a sauna, and so I mean that basically again. So diet and lifestyle always a priority. Doing some, typically some testing to try to find some additional answers and then give her recommendations based on the test. Again, I mentioned a five-hour protocol. Um, the other thing I will mention and I mentioned I think I mentioned briefly, but I want, when you're dealing with a thyroid condition, we want you to be safe while healing, and what I mean by that is, like in the case of hyperthyroidism, graves' disease, if someone has elevated thyroid hormone levels, again you want to manage that, whether it's through the anti-thyroid medication I mentioned earlier or there are natural agents.
Speaker 1:I took an herb called bugleweed that lowers, helps to lower, thyroid hormone levels. I also took motherwort, which is kind of like a natural beta blocker not exactly the same, of course, but I took the bugleweed, the motherwort, if someone has really low thyroid hormone levels. Again, thyroid hormone is extremely important for every cell tissue in the body. So there is a time and place for thyroid hormone replacement. I do think it's probably over-prescribed, but again, not to say it's never necessary. So yeah, did want to throw that in as well. But yeah, essentially those are the steps and approaches I take to help someone heal their thyroid and heal their gut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's interesting hearing you speak because it's almost like I'm I'm looking in the mirror talking to myself, right, because your approach is almost exactly the same as mine. Um, I'm like yourself. I don't like, you know, doing loads of testing up front or anything like that. Um, I try and keep it to a minimum. You know, I don't like my client spending money for the sake of spending money. If I think, if I think it's worth doing a test, like I was, I was working with a client the other day and I said I think I think it would be useful to. So there's two tests.
Speaker 2:I was kind of thinking, yeah, it would be definitely not essential, but it would be nice to know if this client had particular heavy metals and, if so, which ones, and also some other environmental toxins. But I said, look, if I'm honest, I don't think it's going to change the protocol that you're on anyway, right. But I said, look, if you want to know, feel free to order the, the protocol that you're on anyway, right. But I said, look, if you want to know, feel free to to order the test, but I don't think I necessarily need it, but if it's going to make you feel a little bit better in yourself then, then you can order the test. So so that's kind of my view. I think metal sometimes can be useful, you know, to know which specific one it might.
Speaker 1:You know it might speed up the process a little bit, but, um, but yeah it sounds like we've got quite quite a similar approach, really yeah, I agree, I'm definitely try to be more conservative with the testing and, like you, I also give them options. So maybe I'll talk about a stool test, but I don't know if it's really absolutely necessary. But sometimes we don't know if it's really absolutely necessary. But sometimes we don't know too, to be honest, like we might recommend, like some basic tests. And if the person's not improving and they're doing everything from a diet and lifestyle standpoint and doing everything based on the findings of the test and they're not improving, maybe we need to dig deeper. And I learned years ago I had this one patient again years ago this story about how he wasn't improving. He had a Graves' disease patient, his antibodies weren't decreasing and he felt great from a gut perspective, like no digestive symptoms at all, no pain, no gas, no bloating, regular bowel movements. And at the time again, this was quite a while ago I mean I was like, well, you know we could do a stool test, but I mean you're feeling great, I don't think it's going to show anything and they're not cheap to do so. So again I long story short I didn't recommend a stool test and he stopped seeing me. He saw another practitioner who did a stool test and they found a parasite, or they found parasites on a stool test. They put them on a protocol and he got. And again, I just know this because we communicate through email and he said so. I didn't see the findings, but I don't have any reason to see why he would not tell me the truth. And he said that the antibodies normal. He got into remission. Tell me the truth. And he said that the antibodies normal, he got into remission.
Speaker 1:And again I made the mistake of completely dismissing doing a stool test. Again, I think I think it was not a bad thing that I didn't jump into the stool test because, like you, I'm conservative. I'll definitely do a stool test when I think it's necessary, as well as other tests. But I am conservative and you know, don't want the person spending you know hundreds or thousands of dollars if unnecessary. But in this case, again I I looking back when he, when this person wasn't healing, and and again, it's just an example that you can't always go by symptoms. Sometimes the person might have something underlying that could be an issue and uh, but but yeah, I just wanted to share that because, again, I don't recommend stool tests on everybody, but even if someone's not experiencing symptoms. Sometimes there is a time and place to do them yeah, yeah, excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2:So, eric, what's what's next for you? Don't tell me you're going to write another book.
Speaker 1:I will eventually so um, so, not anytime, not not this year. So when this this is, this episode is released, um, there won't be another book out, but eventually I do want to write more books, uh, health related books and, yeah, probably thyroid related books. Uh, so what's next? I mean, I still obviously I'm passionate about helping people with hyperthyroidism and Hashimoto's grave disease, hashimoto's plan on continuing to work with people who have these.
Speaker 1:I have live events a few times a year. Many times they're free, like five day boot camps and challenges. Sometimes I do others that are like low cost, uh, but but yeah, so, um, so, and you know, I have my own podcast, save my thyroid. So so you know, I'm continuing to uh work on um, not having just um guests, but what I've done lately is had people dealing with graves and Hashimoto's just just people who not even patients but just like people who I like, just kind of like go through like some of their major health challenges. So trying to do some different things with the podcast and also have a newsletter which uh is fitting for this episode uh, healthy gut, healthy thyroid, healthy Thyroid which people could check out by visiting savemythyroidcom forward slash newsletter and so, yeah, that talks more about what we were discussing here, the relationship between the gut and the thyroid, and so, yeah, those are some of the things that will be next for me.
Speaker 2:Fantastic, and where else can people find you online and where can people buy your books?
Speaker 1:So I mean they could just visit Amazon to buy my books. And again, savemythyroidcom I have two websites. My first website, naturalendocrinesolutionscom, is about 15 years old. And then, when I came out with my podcast in 2021, and I called it Save my Thyroid, I'm like, yeah, savemythyroidcom is so much easier to remember than NaturalEndocrineSolutionscom and I wasn't quite sure what to do. And NaturalEndocrineSolutionscom has a lot of articles and blog posts. I'm like I'll just keep that as the written for written material, written resources, and then put all the podcast episodes on savemythoroughcom. And, of course, you could find it on Amazon not Amazon on Apple podcasts and Spotify have a YouTube channel as well. So if you just look for Eric Osansky on YouTube, you'll find me have a couple of Facebook groups as well that related to thyroid health. So, yeah, you could find me in all those places.
Speaker 2:Excellent, excellent. Eric, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your experience and wisdom with the audience. It's been really great chatting with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, lee. This was a great conversation Again. I appreciate you having with you. Thank you so much, lee. This was a great conversation Again. I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So that's all from Eric and me for this week, but don't forget to join me same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel Podcast. Thanks for tuning in, remember to give the show a rating and a review, and I'll see you next time.
