Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
148 - How I Healed My Hernia Without Surgery with Zander Phelps
Welcome back to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast! In today's episode, I sit down with Zander Phelps, who shares his incredible journey of rehabilitating his own inguinal hernia—without surgery. Zander takes us through the methods he used to restore his body naturally, challenging conventional medical approaches and proving that the body has an incredible ability to heal when given the right conditions.
We also dive into the importance of unbound play—a concept that goes far beyond just movement. Zander explains how unrestricted, instinctual play not only helps with physical resilience but also enhances creativity, adaptability, and overall well-being. If you're interested in natural healing, movement, and reclaiming your body’s full potential, you won’t want to miss this conversation!
We discussed:
0:00
Zander's Hernia Discovery
8:33
Natural Hernia Healing Approach
17:02
The Power of Unbound Play
25:21
Benefits of Cooperative Play vs Competition
39:55
Play as a Mental Health Solution
48:56
Finding Joy and Connection Through Movement
You can find Zander @:
https://healmyhernia.com/
https://www.hackido.org/
https://www.craniogami.org/
https://www.zanderphelps.org/
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh's website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Substack - https://substack.com/@radicalhealthrebel
YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
Rumble Channel - https://rumble.com/user/RadicalHealthRebel
Leigh's courses:
StickAbility - https://stickabilitycourse.com/
Mastering Client Transformation - https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/mastering-client-transformation/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
And so when we landed in Kauai, I was driving home and still feeling a little bit, but not as severe. But when we got to my house, my son wanted to jump on a trampoline, so I said, okay, let's jump around. So I jumped around a couple of times and then I did one big jump and landed and I felt pain. I felt, you know, my thigh just felt. Ooh, that wasn't good and I lifted up my shirt and I just had a large bulge on my left side and it was a hernia.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. I'm your host, lee Brandon. This work started for me several decades ago when I started to see the impact I could make on people, helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out. Helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out, including serious back, knee, shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed, and it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show.
Speaker 2:In today's episode, I sit down with Xander Phelps, who shares his incredible journey of rehabilitating his own inguinal hernia without surgery. Xander takes us through the methods he used to restore his body naturally, challenging conventional medical approaches and proving that the body has an incredible ability to heal when given the right conditions. We also dive into the importance of unbound play, a concept that goes far beyond just movement. Zanda explains how unrestricted instinctual play not only helps with physical resilience, but also enhances creativity, adaptability and overall well-being. If you're interested in natural healing movement and reclaiming your body's full potential. You won't want to miss this conversation. Xander Phelps, welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast that's coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for having me, lee Stoked, to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great to have you on and to kick things off. Could you perhaps share your educational and professional background and also what motivated you to become interested in the power of play?
Speaker 1:Well, it started back in, I guess, 1995, or actually 94. I was about ready to go back to college and get my bachelor's degree in art but I called up my cousin for an internship to work with him and that turned into me going I'll just continue to work with him and not go back to school and we ended up basically revolutionizing television for NBC. We shrunk the credits down to one third and opened up the two thirds for entertainment and brought computers into the network. It was analog at that point, but what we wanted to do we had to do it digitally. So we had some experimental computers that we brought in and were able to do it.
Speaker 1:So that started a long journey for me and the power of play came from when I stopped that job versus. I got burnt out and they wanted me to continue, but I said no and I got my things down to a backpack and as I was leaving, a friend handed me a similar thing to this, a foot bag, and just gave it to me when I started traveling. I ended up traveling for a decade with the backpack, but everywhere I went I was able to play and interconnect with people from all over the world. It was the fast way of doing it so, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:So when you, when you did you travel on your own, uh, yes, yeah, basically, wow, yeah, 10 years, that's a long time to travel, you know it was.
Speaker 1:it wasn't, no, it was. It wasn wasn't like nonstop traveling Like I. I went to a massage school for a little bit of time so I did some massage work. Um, you know, in uh, I was living on a permaculture community in Hawaii for a little bit and I was also a Manny uh, a male nanny for a family for a little bit of time, but most of the time it was just meeting like I would go to Central America and meet a bunch of Europeans, go back to Europe, hang out with them for a while, then went to somewhere else in the world and met a bunch of more Europeans. Europe was kind of like my hub. I had family in Holland and France so I kindly stayed with them a little bit of time and then traveled to visit my friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so hence the name Zander, right.
Speaker 1:Dutch name. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so hence the name zander. Right, well, that's name. Well, yeah, yeah, natal on there, but uh, uh, yeah, it's. Uh, it's short for alexander, but my mom was, alexander was my initial name, but I went by zander yeah, yeah, there's quite.
Speaker 2:There's quite a few um dutch soccer players called zander. Okay, okay, cool yeah, I love that, but yeah okay, so so you went off traveling, uh-huh, and then you so I mean, before we start recording, actually, you actually mentioned you also spent some time in australia, was that? Was that during those 10 years?
Speaker 1:yes, uh, yeah, I was down. Uh, I went to. When I initially started I went with my cousin to go bike around, uh, new zealand. We did some biking around the the north shore and then went to the south shore and traveled around and then went to australia. Um, I have family out there in sydney and perth, so, um, you know, we went up the coast.
Speaker 1:Uh, I was with my cousin at that point, but he went back home. And that's kind of, actually, when I started my journey, because I was supposed to go back home for that Christmas time. And then I just I was going to start up a new company and I called up the guy and said I'm really not sure if I want to do this. I don't know if I can go back to the rat race, you know. And he's just like look, the job will be here for when you want to come back. If you want to come back, it's here for you. Go, keep on traveling. And so I said okay, and then I called up my family and said, merry Christmas, I'm not coming home. And then I just kept on traveling.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's interesting I've I've actually spent a lot of time in Sydney and too, yeah, probably more family in Western Australia than I do in the UK.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, yeah, wow yeah, perth is very isolated.
Speaker 2:That's a it's, it's yeah, I had a aunt and uncle that moved there in in the seventies or, yeah, early seventies, late sixties, early seventies and yeah, their, their family grew quite, quite large, wow, okay yeah, it's a cool place remind me a little bit too much of la, though, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Like you got the central city and they have all the little outskirts and stuff like that, and it was just like ah, I loved. I loved the east coast, like byron bay was my favorite yeah, it was very, very cool.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, it's nice. Yeah, I've spent more time in Sydney, to be fair, than Perth, but yeah, I've certainly had a good time in Australia. I'm not sure I would have done in 2020, but that's a whole other story.
Speaker 1:That's 100%. That is fun.
Speaker 2:So the main topic we really want to get into today is about hernias. Yes, and I know obviously you've experienced a hernia. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Ian, a semi-professional footballer, spent over three years plagued with a recurring groin injury. Despite consulting five physiotherapists, two sports physicians and even undergoing surgery, his pain persisted. Every time he thought he was on the road to recovery, the injury would return, leaving him frustrated and disheartened. Ian had spent thousands on treatments that offered only temporary relief. He worried that his playing days were over until he decided to give it one last shot and came to see me. Through detailed assessments, I identified the root causes of Ian's injury, which were imbalances and weaknesses that hadn't been addressed by previous treatments. I designed a personalized exercise program targeting his specific needs, while also focusing on essential lifestyle factors to optimize his recovery. The results were transformational. Ian is now back on the pitch stronger and fitter than ever. Not only has his groin injury healed, but he's also full of energy, sharper in his movements and more confident in his abilities. If a longstanding injury is keeping you on the sidelines, visit wwwbodycheckcouk to schedule your consultation. Let's get to the root of the problem and help you get back to the sport you love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I was living in Kauai at the time and I was flying in the plane on Christmas Eve and I mean, to be honest, it felt like I had a really bad case of blue balls. You know, I was sitting in my chair and I was squirming and I was trying to find the right positioning and I couldn't, and it was not comfortable. But so when we landed in Kauai, I was driving home and still feeling a little bit, but not as severe. But when we got to my house, my um, my son, wanted to jump on a trampoline. So I said, okay, let's, let's jump around. So I jumped around a couple of times and then I did one big jump and landed and I felt pain. I felt, you know, my side, just it felt, ooh, that wasn't, that wasn't good, and I lifted up my shirt and, uh, I, I just had a large bulge on my left side and it was a hernia.
Speaker 1:So, what kind of hernia was it? It's inquinal. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I went to my doctor friend and he was just like yeah, it's a hernia. You either A can get the surgery or, b just live with it. So I didn't like either of those options. Yeah, live with it. So I didn't like either of those options. Yeah, it was painful to even walk and I'm on Kauai. I was known as the ambassador of play and I would. Every weekend I would go to the beach area. There's a. There was a farmer's market that I play in front of and I'd kick around, the hack and get people to play with me. So I couldn't, I couldn't not do that. It was. It was just imperative that I fix it.
Speaker 2:So so what was it?
Speaker 1:what was it about the surgery that you kind of thought, oh no, I don't fancy that oh gosh, when I, when I, when I reached the into the mesh I was looking into researching it on the internet and it's just having a foreign substance in your body, your body starts rejecting it. It can, it can try and push it out through through your, your tissue and stuff. And once it's in there, it's, it's an irritant. So your body starts creating connective tissue to hook with it and that's part of the fascia. So if you start having troubles and there's a large percentage of people who, who get the hernia, the, the, the mesh and like the problems don't show up until years later. But by that, by that time, the, the body's so enmeshed with it that you can't really take it out because it's it's catastrophic for your whole body. Uh, the fascia is all interconnected. If you cut a big hole out, it just, it just destroys everything. So you know that with you know the, the problems that you even going into surgery, there's always a risk with surgeries. Uh, and it was.
Speaker 1:I knew immediately I didn't want to do the mesh. So I actually started doing research into alternatives. Um, there was a? Uh, a place up in Canada that would use a steel wire instead. Um, which was okay. But um, and then I found a guy in Italy who would use your own tissue to do it and I was actually making plans to go to Italy to actually do the surgery. But that was, uh, my my then ex-wife. At the time we were raising my son together. Uh, she said I couldn, I couldn't go. She was like you can't go, you're gonna be taking too much time out yeah so so.
Speaker 2:So what was it about putting up with it for the rest of your life that you didn't like?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, that wasn't an option. I, I just I, I'm, I. I love life too much, I love playing too much. You know, my, my um, I was also with the, the kawaii had an ultimate disc team and that was where my community was. You know, like, like we, we go out and have uh, practices and the games that we've had. It was just, it was my way of really connecting with people, because I'm not, I wasn't a surfer, so I didn't have my surfer crowd, um, so the ultimate disc people were my, were my, were my people. So for me not to be able to do that, for me not to be able to kick around one of these things, just simply wasn't an option. I'm like there's no way. So I, you know, I I said let me, let me just find out how to do something different.
Speaker 2:So so you're at that point.
Speaker 1:So you're at that point. So you're, you're living in hawaii, right? Uh, not anymore. I moved out here. My son wanted to move back. It's to the mainland, so I moved. Okay, yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 2:So so you've got the hernia. You've done some research on the potential options that you have in terms of surgical. When you say, don't fancy any of those, you don't want to be putting up with that for the rest of your life, no, no, so what? So what was the plan?
Speaker 1:well, my, my plan was initially I am just going to dive into finding out what I can, how to heal it. Um, I was going to give myself six months. I said if I cannot get this thing healed in six months, then I have no other option to do the surgery. So I basically follow a lot of my own intuition, but I also looked into some potential possibilities. Like I found an Edgar Cayce talked uh, the power of castor oil, right, and he recommended this castor oil treatment, which was you put castor oil over the problem, uh, then you put a, a plastic bag, uh, you, you create a, what they call it a, uh, castor oil with a wool pad and then a plastic bag and then a heating pad, right.
Speaker 2:So that there's a little pack.
Speaker 1:There you go, they're perfect, yeah. So you'd put that on there and it seeps in. I also heard about the power of myrrh. So I would use myrrh, sometimes a little bit of frankincense, and then the heating pad, castor oil treatment. So I started doing that every day and then doing my own self-massage, since I'm a trained massage therapist. But I would just start doing my own self-massage afterwards and just really start working the area Along with that. And then I got into aloe vera as a powerful healer how the plant regenerates itself. If you cut an aloe plant it would automatically start healing, right. So, observing that I'm like okay, and finding out that it is a powerful healer, I started using it internally by cutting it up into chunks and just eating it, and then I would take the leaf and rub it over the hernia. So I was trying to get it from both angles Along with that one of the I have. Those are the three.
Speaker 1:The three core power things are the castor oil, the aloe vera and my last one is I did vacuum breath. It's a. It's a technique to help strengthen your core and utilizing. I actually saw Jim Carrey do it when I was in 1989. I saw him doing it on this show called In Living Color, and he lifted up his shirt and did this thing with his stomach and it was just hysterical. So I started trying to practice it back then and then I kind of thought that that would be an amazing thing to do for building the core, but it also. It also strengthens and restructures the fascia. So those three things came into power. I also did a special type of yoga called Yoga Online with Michelle Edwards on Kauai and I tried a bunch of things. I did acupuncture a number of times and changed up the diet completely. I liquefied my diet so my digestion would have a break and would be able to focus just on healing and not putting any stress in the hernia area focused just on healing and not putting any stress in the hernia area.
Speaker 2:So how long did you kind of use this process and what was the kind of result.
Speaker 1:How long did it take, et cetera. Yeah, that's the amazing part. It basically took about two weeks for my hernia to stay in and my goal was like, if I didn't see severe you know things within one month of the actual start to try all those things, I was going to keep on trying other things, but within two weeks it's it was in and it's kind of stayed in I was, so I was able to, like, walk around comfortably. Um, but I, I still took it very easy. Uh, but after a month I started trying to kick around my hack and I was able to do that. Uh, as that was just, I'm like, oh my God, this is perfect. And then, um, after two months, I decided to try, uh, the disc again and I was able to start playing ultimate disc. I wasn't running a hundred percent, I wasn't like, but I was, and I was still very cautious with the process, but it was. I had no issues at that point. After, within two months, I was, I was able to run around without it, without feeling any pain.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, it's interesting. As you know, I had a client. He saw me well, probably 15 years ago now, something like that, and the problem that he didn't come to me for a hernia, it was a completely different problem but it got sorted, even though no medical doctor could work out what was wrong with him, but got him sorted in a few months. It was all good. And then years later he also had a hernia.
Speaker 2:Now he did live a long way away from me, so it was quite a hassle for him to come and see me and he decided to have the surgery and have the mesh and that was without my input. You know, I think he may have called me and said what do you think you know quite often hernia, it's like you know, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, kind of thing, yep. And anyway, he had the surgery and not too long after the surgery he was literally constantly ringing me up saying please, can you do something to help me get rid of the pain. You know he was getting quite severe like neurological symptoms, yeah, and I think that went on somewhere between one and two years, like he was in terrible, terrible, like worse pain than the hernia, yep, so I'm guessing that's you know the kind of the kind of thing that you was hoping to avoid by not having the surgery right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's the list of potential side effects and ramifications from it was just extraordinary. I mean I, I'm, I was literally like, how would they, why would they even do this? Like, why would they? They risk all these things? My dad has a similar thing. He had the surgery done a number of years ago, prior to my, my hernia, but now he lives in pain every day from it and there's nothing they can do. And this is this, is this is not an exception. I mean this is this is pretty, pretty common. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's mind blowing. I mean, I'm, I'm.
Speaker 1:So I just tell people, like, if you're not in a medical emergency, I mean there's absolutely times when you have to get the surgery done. But if not, if you're, if you're just in pain, there's a way you can start working on it right now. There's a way you can at least test the waters to see, um, how how much you can do for healing it. Um, and, minimally, you're going to learn some amazing things about your own body, that's. But it does take time. It's not a quick fix, and a lot of people nowadays want a quick fix. It's not a it's not a pop a pill type of thing. You literally have to have to put your mind motivated to do this and and put in the effort. But it's possible, I know it's possible yeah, I actually have another client.
Speaker 2:He's been working with me a long time, probably 17 years, something like that and when he came to see me he had an abdominal hernia and you know, we spoke about it and I and I, my my view was, you know, my view always is the client should choose right, it's not down to me. But I said to him, is it causing you any issue? And he's like no, it doesn't cause me any problem, there's no pain, it doesn't stop me doing anything. And I said, well, why do anything about it if it's not causing you any issues? And today he's still got the hernia and the hernia in itself isn't causing any issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right, he has got, he's got. He's got other issues, but that's because he, you know, generally doesn't, doesn't follow my recommendations. But you know, when someone gets to a certain age, it's very difficult to get people to change right. Um, but my, my, my experience has been, you know, working with clients is, you know, the, the gentle approach has always tended to be the better approach when it, when it comes to to hernias, but it sounds like, you know, what you've done is actually even better than that. You've been very gentle with it, but to hernias. But it sounds like you know, what you've done is actually even better than that. You've been very gentle with it, but you've managed to reverse it, you know, with relatively little effort really it's, it just yeah, it just takes, it takes the time and it takes.
Speaker 1:You have to be able to. I did not. I mean, I took it very easy on myself. I, I was able to. I I didn't sit sitting as horrible for hernias Like, unless you really bolster your hips to be lower than your knees If you're parallel or anything like you want to make sure that you raise your hip up, so you get this, so you elongate your spine and stuff and it relieves the pressure from the midsection, spine and stuff and it relieves the pressure from the midsection. So I laid down a lot, um, and I just took it very easy on on my, on my whole body and especially the hernia area.
Speaker 1:But, um, you know it's, you gotta have that time, you gotta have the, the, the philosophy of you can do it, it's, it's, it's I mean mental, the mental game is a huge part of it. You've got to, you've got to be able to say to yourself I'm going to do this, I can do it, and my body is healing, and you know I was using positive affirmations all the time, just yeah it's yeah, that's, that's great, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I always put a lot of importance on is you know what? What is your goal? What are you hoping to achieve? Because you know there's? There's an old saying by a psychologist called Jerry Wesch if you have a big enough dream, you don't need a crisis. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, so. So from that point where you've got this hernia and it's painful, you don't want the surgery. But at that point, what was your goal? What was your drive? What drove you on to actually create that change?
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Speaker 1:I had to play again. I mean, it was literally like, you know, it's my reason. I know it's my reason to be here because, like, as I was saying, when I was traveling, um, I could go anywhere in the world and go to a park and I would just start playing with myself. I wasn't saying that, but I would do it in the park and somebody cool came and play with me, and so it was, and you didn't get arrested.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, you know, know, at least not no, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I wouldn't. It was one of those things. It was a great connector for me and I learned how to make them. That's what this thing is learning how to make them, and then I would be able to gift them away to other people and do that same thing that my friend said to me. He said keep it in your pocket, it's going to be the best gift and will ever give you, and he gave me one, and so I was able to do that anywhere I went, and that was my that's that was my relief, that was my, my way.
Speaker 2:Just just just for the people that are listening, can you describe what it was you just lifted up?
Speaker 1:oh, this is um. This is traditionally called a foot bag or a hacky sack. Um, hacky sack is owned by the company whammo, so that they own like frisbee. That's why we we call it Ultimate Disc instead of Ultimate Frisbee. They own Hula Hoop, yo-yo All those names are owned by that company.
Speaker 1:So when he gave me his, I'd lost it at one point in my travel. So I learned how to make them. But that was the biggest game changer as far as being able to spread the joy of it. So it became my passion to make. I'd try and make three a day and then I would try and gift away three a day.
Speaker 1:And I did that for a long time because it was my exercise, it was my way of connecting and really feeling into a community of you know, connecting and really feeling into a community because you know I'd be able to tell a lot about the culture and stuff like that, how people would be able to play with me. So it became the. It became an obsession and my reason, if you will. So, and I learned juggling along the way, so I also teach juggling. So all right, for for me, footbag, kicking around a footbag is the ultimate. I call it the ultimate physical exercise and juggling for me is the ultimate brain exercise. So this is the ultimate play tool, cause you can do, you can do that with these plus many other things. So you know, that's my, that's my. The hernia came as part of my, my healing assignment, and and I have a mission as far as helping people heal that way. But play is my, my true path of like spreading what I believe is one of the most important things we can do for ourselves yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean it's really interesting because you know, I I play tennis. I've been playing tennis for about 20 years now. Um, I was big into sports as a kid, but you know I'm talking, you know organized sports. I mean, I played ultimate Frisbee when I was at school. I absolutely love Frisbee, right, yeah, yeah, you know, if anyone turns up, because I live right next to a massive park, right, lovely, so I've got Frisbee in my wardrobe. You know, I just absolutely love playing Frisbee, but I've never played. Well, I know it's, yeah, hacky sack is what I know it as. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've never played that, never done it, because I imagine you can do like keepy-uppies and things like that, but is there like competition as well?
Speaker 1:There are footbag competitions. They have like a freestyle competition where you do, uh, these certain tricks and stuff like that, and they have a net footbag where it's like similar to a volleyball type of thing or takara is the best way of describing it but you have a. You have a smaller ball that you have to wear. The problem with both of those ways? They usually wear wear shoes, and I recommend for for me personally, I found barefoot is the best. It's better for your body. Shoes are like are like casts for the feet, so they really limit your range of motion and your and your muscle movement, which affects your whole spine. So by going barefoot, you also get the grounding thing of of, of you know, of being able to connect with the earth. So that's I. I I play barefoot, but the competitions around it is what I kind of steer away from, because the reason, the reason why I enjoy hacks so much, is that I called it cooperative competition. Uh, nobody would lose, nobody would go home feeling bad or was wearing a different colored uniform, and so there's no need to crush them. So you're all working together and so it's a great connector sport. So, um, it's uh, you know, you're, you're, you're building that energy in a circle. So no matter if you're playing by yourself, which is always great, but as soon as you had one person, you have, you have the energy going back and forth. You have, you know, three people, you have a triangle of energy and then the more people you have, the more energy you're building up um in this in this wonderful way.
Speaker 1:So it but footbag in itself. I mean, there's so many sports now use it as a warmup, like I heard that NBA players do it now, like they'll kick around a hack, because it creates a sense of community as well as get you limbered up and moving pretty rapidly. There's it's a what's it called A low friction or what's it called Low impact, a low impact sport. So you know you're just bouncing around, which is great for your body in general, because you're mostly made of water. So all those little bouncing things causes everything to open up quickly. So it's, it truly is a superior game that is a great cross trainer for any sport as well so it's um.
Speaker 1:You know, that's why I call it the ultimate physical exercise, because it works your core, but it keeps your body and you're balancing too. Every time you're kicking the ball, you're balancing your body, which is extraordinary for your brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean one of the things that you know. Again, we were talking a little bit about paul check, who you know I studied with for many, many years, and he talks a lot about the importance of unbound play.
Speaker 2:So play without an outcome, okay right, so you're not playing, you're not playing to win, you're playing to play. Right, 100, and you know, I remember, I remember as a kid growing up in the 70s, that's, that's pretty much all we ever did, really. I mean, yeah, there were sports as well, but we did so much play just for play's sake, right? You know, yeah, I mean, we had people, people of a certain age in the uk, well, and we had games, like it was called bob, bob and kirby and uh, all sorts of. There was naughty games as well, but um, um, but literally just playing. Or you know, when I was a kid, just toy cars, I mean I played, and I was now, I was just with toy cars, just using my imagination, right, yeah, and I, and I think as adults we kind of lose that ability to play. It's almost like it's not for adults. Well, why not?
Speaker 1:it's been bred out of us. I mean, there's peter gray has a great book, uh, free to play, which talks about this specifically, how children learn through play. That's what we come here to do. That's the whole philosophy is, you know, is we come here to play? We come through learning, like something like if you do it takes to memorize something or to learn something, it takes 400 repetitions, unless you're doing it through play, and it takes 18 to 20 repetitions.
Speaker 1:But literally, that's our best state to be in is our playful state. So you know, we do that when we're kids. But then we go through a school system that you know makes it into a recess type of thing and then we eventually go into like a high school situation where it's competition play which changes that up from that. That childlike play where everybody wins, like children will actually switch up their games to make the play last longer. They'll, they'll handicap the best players so that you know they don't, they aren't crushing everybody, so that everybody can play longer.
Speaker 1:It's. It's amazing to see how and how children can figure it out for that, for playing optimally. But as we grow up it gets beaten us, and then we. Then they say that that that play is the antithesis to work, which is the exact opposite. The more play you have in the workforce, the more actually they've proven that the higher output, the higher efficiency. If you throw in a time where you can play or reset your brain, you become way more efficient throw in a time where you can play or reset your brain, you become way more efficient.
Speaker 1:So it's a way of you know that's that's. The other mission is to try to remind us that play is our fundamental purpose. It's it's. It's how we connect the best, it's how we we optimize our, our brain functioning and our physical functions. So you know, we've got to get over that stigma. We've got to, we've got to remember that. You know, anytime is a good time to play and you can do it through anything, you know so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other thing as well when you're playing, you're being creative. So you're you're accessing your right brain. So, even in a work situation, if you're in a in a state state of play, you're more likely to be creative. Now, surely that's going to help productivity as well, right? 100?
Speaker 1:100, actually call it the play flow state. So it's like, um, you know, it's that's the the optimal way of. That's why juggling is amazing. For that, because once you start juggling, as soon as you do it, like almost that first rhythm will get your brain to to relax and so it does does similar things as to what they call the regular flow state, to the hypothalus. You start getting the brain to really focus and it stays active enough so it doesn't shut down but not bored as well. So it's at that perfect state of just relaxation. So you can do juggling really quickly and it gets you right back into that state. But, yeah, 100, your, your brain functions better, it you activate certain parts of it, which gets you more creative and regardless of what you're doing, um, it'll, it'll make that activity better.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, I can juggle by the way, oh nice yeah, I'm gonna send you a kit.
Speaker 1:I'll get your information, I'll send you. I have a. I have a kit thing that I put together which which gives you to make three of them. So you get, you get in it and it shows you, uh, I guess a needle thread and hemp seeds and it's it's made from hemp fabric and hemp seeds, so it's amazing for teething babies, by the way. So you put it in the freezer and they'll bite down on and correct their own teeth and they can squeeze it. This all this does is build neuromuscular tactile senses and you can play catch and it doesn't hurt for babies. It's not like a baseball where you, where you're learning to catch like this, first of all, which isn't, which isn't as good, you learn to catch like this, but if you miss it, it doesn't hurt so you know, but I'll send you one, yeah, yeah, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 2:That'd be awesome Cause I it's. It's interesting as well Cause, uh, in 2023, a colleague of mine was organizing a charity soccer event. Someone he knew had a brain tumor and he was in I think it was in Germany, getting treatment. It was like half a million pounds, um, for the treatment and not many people can afford that. So he organized this soccer tournament to try and raise money and he was kind of saying is anyone interested in coming along or putting in a team? And at that point I think I hadn't played for 23 years. And so I messaged him and I said I'll come along and play happily, but do I need to bring a team or can I just come along? And he said, well, either, really like, if you can get yourself a team, bring a team along, but if you can't, just come along and we'll put you in a team. So, anyway, I got, I got on the phone and I got my nephew, who was a semi-pro player. He brought one of his teammates along. I got another guy from Scotland, I got another two guys from Wales. I had a real kind of international team and it was great fun.
Speaker 2:But what was quite interesting, because I hadn't played for so long, about a week before I thought I'd better get in some practice because I'm going to be really, really rusty. So I went over to my local park, I bought a ball I didn't even own a ball, I had to buy AstroTurf boots to wear, I had to buy all the gear because I hadn't played for so long and I went over just took the ball because I'm on my own. So I was just doing keepy-uppies, right, yeah. Now, when I was 10 I could do hundreds because I used to. I used to practice all the time.
Speaker 2:But because I hadn't played for so long and hadn't hadn't done keepy uppies at all, I think the first time I was doing I was doing like five or six, right, and it was like, oh my god, my legs don't even know what they're doing anymore because they've just lost that muscle memory from doing it. Yeah, yeah. But then after about half an hour I was doing like 30, 35. I was thinking, oh, it's coming back, it's coming back. And uh, after a while I get bored doing this.
Speaker 2:I might, just because there's football pitches over this, I thought I'll just practice some penalties and I did it for a little while and as I've hit one, I've torn muscle in my thigh, oh yeah. So I actually couldn't practice again until the day and I still didn't know if I could play. I ended up playing a little bit, but I was a bit disappointed because of the injury I couldn't really play properly. But it was a great day and it was really good fun, and just to be back on a pitch and just kick a ball about was just amazing. Yeah, you know, and I guess if it had been a hacky sack, I probably wouldn't have pulled a muscle, because it obviously doesn't weigh anything, does it? No, no.
Speaker 1:It does not weigh anything.
Speaker 2:But that would be quite interesting because, as I say, I've never done keepy-uppies with a hacky sack yeah, yeah, even though I spent hundreds of hours doing keepy-upp up with a hockey sack yeah, yeah, even though I spent hundreds of hours doing keeping others with a ball as a kid. Okay, it would be quite interesting. Maybe, if I um get reasonably good at it, I'll send you a video cool cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean there is a. Yeah, football players do a little bit different. They usually kick it with the top of their feet and that's that's. That's the proper. That's proper doing with the football. It with the top of their feet, and that's that's. That's the proper. That's proper doing with the football.
Speaker 1:But with the hack you're using it in, set by you, so right, so you're, you're, that's what the it's more of a core crunching, but cause the ball is smaller, so having it on your thigh you get a lot more area to work with and it's less than a football. But I used to play. I used to play a lot of soccer growing up, but with this thing I could put it in my pocket. That's the. You know, I can, I can carry around, I carry around like at least six of them with me in my pocket, so I can, I can juggle as well as give them out to people when they play. But that's that was the, the, the miracle thing about this thing. And and I can make them. So that's the. That's the other key thing about why I love footbag. I mean, soccer was my biggest game, but I messed up my knees, I ruined my ligaments and stuff, so I couldn't play soccer anymore.
Speaker 2:Did you know that 92% of people fail to follow through on their New Year's resolutions? That's right. Year after year, most of us start strong and then lose momentum by February. Sound familiar, but what if this year could be different? What if you finally had the tools to make your goals stick? Introducing Stickability, a simple, effective and affordable program designed to help you overcome the cycle of failed resolutions. In just a short time, you'll learn how to create lasting habits without wasting hours or breaking the bank. This isn't just another plan. It's the solution to finally sticking to your healthy lifestyle goals. Don't let this year be like the last. Head over to stickabilitycoursecom now to enroll. It's affordable, easy to follow and packed with tools to make 2025 the year that you have the ability to make it stick yeah, yes, I love it, though it's.
Speaker 1:It's a great, it's the greatest team sport. For me, soccer is just the best team sport yeah, yeah, I yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, as a kid I played a lot of sports and I was a striker. And I'll still say now, even though my best sport was definitely cricket, nothing beats scoring a goal in soccer.
Speaker 1:Nothing, it's just yeah, yeah, yeah. That rush, that feeling of yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can hit a six in a cricket match. Well, I didn't do that very often, doesn't? Doesn't come close to scoring a goal. Doesn't come close. Or winning a race in athletics or whatever. Okay, yeah, it doesn't come close at all. Yeah, so so you say your, your time to kind of get healed was just a couple of months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to get fully, fully healed, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you've been, and you know, in terms of the, pretty much pain-free ever since. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no recurrence, no, nothing. So, uh, that's the. You know I, I know it works. And then, and then, plus now, now that I know what to do about it, if, if there is ever another problem, I'll know what to do, which is that's what. That's what's kind of great about the. You know I do have, I do have programs set up for it, but that's what I encourage people to try out.
Speaker 2:But then, like you know, if you ever have any issues, you're going to you're going to know what to do, so I don't have any problems with, uh, with fearing that or anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so how long ago was the uh, was the hernia uh 2015. This one I have it okay, so 10 years.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so, so you're kind of healthy now, but what, what kind of? Do you have any current goals in terms of your health moving forwards?
Speaker 1:I'm going to continue to stay healthy. We're aging down the road and health is the foundation of how we feel, so I'm still staying active. My favorite game now is I play pickleball a lot. That's my favorite sport now. I used to play a lot. That's my favorite sport now.
Speaker 1:I used to play a lot of tennis, but tennis was too competitive for me. I grew up playing competitive tennis, so that mental state of like if I don't hit the ball right or something like that, I'm just going to go. So pickleball is the exact opposite. I just goof around and have fun. It doesn't matter if I win or lose, but you know, it's my. I want to continue with developing more awareness of my body as I age. I'm like going okay, I've got, you know, I've got to really focus on my knees more because I was very harsh on them when I was growing up, and so I've got, you know, I've got me things I'm really concerned about. So, you know, and just staying on staying active, as I do a lot of staying active and just being more aware of my body now than ever.
Speaker 2:And how does, how does the play help with that, would you say?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's again the motivator. The great motivator is for me as a play. So you know, I have a. I have a park somewhat close by now not next door, but I can. I can walk to their barefoot. So I usually go out there and we have the best, best sunset shots I've ever had, cause we've got a little islands out here too. So I go out there every every day.
Speaker 1:I'm in town and you know, for sunset time and just go out there and try and get people to play. So you know, I'm, I'm the guy who everyone knows walks around the park. I walk, do a lap around the park, juggling, and then I'll stay in a spot and then, uh, either juggle or kick around, a hack a little bit and try and get other people to jump in. Um, you know, just intimidate people to play. You know I'm kind of. I know I just ask everybody. It's, it's it's kind of. You know, I gotta, gotta, let you know california, we gotta if any californians are listening or something that we gotta get a little bit more, uh, less anxious about things, because we're it's, it's challenging out here to really get people to to want to step outside themselves and and and people are so in their heads about stuff it you just got to let loose people. You know what.
Speaker 1:I mean we got to find more reasons to play and be a little bit more joyous with each other and ourselves. It's so key. Your physical state is part of your mental state. So if you're up in your head and negative a lot, you're going to ruin your body and your mind and that's just not fun. That makes this world a lot worse.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, I was actually watching a podcast a few weeks back and someone was talking about homeschooling their kids and he was saying they never went to a state school, they were only homeschooled. And they're, I think they're in their late teens now and he was saying they never, ever did a lesson, all they did was play it's and, and when they did entrance exams for university, they got the highest marks I it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, the whole thing of what we do to our children is crazy. You know, when they were actually learning, when they were trying to create the school system, they were trying to get the switch from a Sunday school because they had just Sunday school once a week and they were trying to get the parents to work more. So they were going to incorporate this thing where they're going to put a school system together and the teachers were asking what are we going to teach the kids for all this time? And their quote was you're going to teach them everything about nothing.
Speaker 1:The brain that are very direct and the brain is supposed to grow in branches and that's why play is so important, because the brain will grow all these different neuron connections and branches. But when you teach reading, writing and arithmetic specifically, these are very linear. Thoughts Like one plus one equals two creates your brain to create a neuron connection that goes very fast. This way, boom to one plus one equals two. Or reading when you read, you're focusing on the letters and learning how to spell. It's very linear, especially out loud. When you read out loud and try to pronounce, that's how you think you need to read, and so every time from that on, when you're reading a book, you read super slow versus very fast. So reading, writing, arithmetic and writing is another way of focusing your brain linearly and certain muscle movements.
Speaker 1:Versus art, where you're drawing like this, you'll get the muscle movements later on. Reading you'll get later on, like I think it's Norway or once again even country where they won't start teaching those things until the adult teeth come in, and that's the proper time. That's when your brain is expanded and creates a dense brain versus all this linear things that we teach our kids create a very narrow brain. It's a very hollow brain so it's very hard to regrow those neuron connections because it shoots very fast in one way it's hard to branch after you've created that pulse way. It's hard to branch after you've created that pulse. So what we do to our kids is actually destroying their brains, their creativity, their free thought, and creates them to think just linearly and conform. That's what they wanted to do and they were very successful about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they've taken it a stage further, but that's a whole other black hole to go down. 100%, I know Rudolf Steiner suggests that kids shouldn't learn reading and arithmetic until they're 10 years old At least. Yeah, so they shouldn't be using their left side of the brain. The problem is.
Speaker 1:I mean they've kind of debunked that a little bit. The brain does work more holistically than that. But at the same time when you do those things you definitely shut down your brain's ability to think creatively, to expand the brain the way it needs to grow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So left brain logic thinking is kind of what's drummed into us and it drums out the creativity and all the other potential uh skills that we have as humans that we we just don't have, or very few people have, right, people that could see auras and chakras, and you know, most of us can't see all that kind of stuff because it's, you know, kind of schooled out of us, so to speak yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:And. And they don't even have art in a lot of schools anymore, or creative. They took all the creative things out and just said you know what we're just going to force our kids to learn these? Uh, the, the? You know history, which is all garbage and manipulation anyway, and you know just all these things that are just that don't help us. They literally shut us down. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Is there. Is there? Is there anything in terms of the hernia or the importance of play that perhaps we haven't covered, that you wanted to talk about before we wrap up? Um?
Speaker 1:well, go out there and play is is is always my thing is. Find, find your way of that. Perhaps we haven't covered that you wanted to talk about before we wrap up. Well, go out there and play is always my thing. Find your way of play, you know. And with the hernia going, that's just. I mean. I love the way you're talking about gut health a lot too, because it is literally your gut is the focus of what we need to work on as far as creating our physical health, gut health is imperative. I'm actually finding out more about what parasites are, so I'm trying to do parasite cleanses now just to help heal my gut a lot.
Speaker 1:But, hernias, I always encourage people if you're not in a medical emergency, try doing it yourself. Know that you can do it. Don't believe the hype. You know I so many doctors were like you can't heal it yourself. I'm like no, you can, you can, your body can heal it. Just you just have to have the right encouragement and know that you can do it. So let's just go for it, don't yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So one of the things you did mention earlier that we kind of skirted over a little bit, but I think can be very powerful, as well as the affirmations yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to know it.
Speaker 1:And and and my massage school background did help me as well along with that, because I knew how well, how powerful the body is for healing. So I didn't, I didn't really have any doubts about it. I was literally like every day just going, okay, I've got this, I've got this, you know, and just yeah. A lot of positive affirmations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually had a similar attitude. So I blew a disc out of my lumbar spine and I had another disc that was quite severely bulging disc out of my lumbar spine and I had another, another disc that was quite severely bulging and, uh, because it's a disc and it has very little blood supply, the healing is very slow process. So you go from day to day, week to week, in month to month, and you think nothing's changed. Yeah, but in the back of my mind I kept saying to myself but you know this is going to get better. You know this is going to get better. It wasn't, it wasn't. If it's going to get better, I knew it was going to get better. It took 22, it took 22 months, right, but it got better. And you know, I can still do absolutely anything I want to do and I've got no limitations. You know, if you, if you were stood outside my front door now and you say, right, let's go and throw a frisbee around in the park, I'll be like great, but just just just, beware of the river, I'm not going in to get it out, fair enough. Which actually reminds me some few years back.
Speaker 2:Um, I was a. I was attending a check course in the uk and, uh, in all the break there'd be a group of us and we would just start throwing a Frisbee around and a couple of times it went in the river and I would always make sure that whoever threw it was going in the river, not me. But there was one time a friend of mine, tom, was quite funny. He threw it really low but it just caught the wind and it just flew straight over my head and it went straight into a massive chicken pen. And tom is. I don't know how tall he is, he's about five foot three, I think. Oh no, if he's listening.
Speaker 2:If he's listening to this, he'll probably tell me he's five foot five or something. But he went into this chicken pen and all these chickens started chasing after him and he's running away from these chickens and it was just one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Chickens can be vicious. Yeah yeah, the way they look at you, man. I just always thought, if chickens were like a little bit bigger man, how vicious they could be like a dinosaur yeah, they got those dinosaur eyes and the little talon things coming after you. I'm like, oh no, but yeah, yeah, but a pack of them, man, that would be scary, yeah especially, especially if they're nearly as tall as you are. Yeah, that's true, awesome.
Speaker 2:Good stuff. You know it seems like you know we both juggle. We love Frisbee, we love play. I'm sure I'll love the hacky sack, even though I've never done it. You've played soccer, you've done tennis, same as myself. I think next time I'm coming to California I'll have to give you a call.
Speaker 1:Please do, please do. I'll drive wherever it is, wherever you're at, but you know we can definitely get some hack going, and just you know. Yeah, it'd be great to meet you in person, bro.
Speaker 1:That sounds good, that it'd be great, great to meet you in person, bro. That sounds good. That sounds good. And what's next for you? Um, I'm writing a book right now, um, about uh, play with thyself. Uh, that's like the running title right now, the key to the mental, mental and, uh, physical well-being. But, um, it's like a part memoir, part uh, you know, the practical guide of how to get to keep the play in your world. And other than that, I'm working with rehab centers, recovery places, trying to recognize what it can do for the brain, traumatic brain injuries type of thing, and those are my main focus. I just, I kind of just my regular job. I just kind of left, like last month, actually A month anniversary of being let go.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's another fun story, but I helped my stepbrother built another company and so he's just like, well, we're going to let you go now because you need to do what you need to do. Well, we're going to let you go now because you need to do what you need to do.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of cool because it now allows me to follow up what I want to do and and and I'm really this has been my mission for quite some time, but I haven't had the focus that I needed to really get the word out there. So I'm I'm trying to get this to the next level and, you know, doing more interviews, more podcasts, and, you know, trying to create more, more, more buzz around it. So, because I, you know, mental health is a critical issue right now and I feel I, I do believe that we can remember how to, how to do this and get through it through play yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and I've got to hold my hand up.
Speaker 2:I don't play enough myself and it's. It's interesting because, um, my wall, just to my left, there is a picture of a baby rhino. Okay, nice, and the baby rhino is there to remind me to play more. Wow Okay, wow Okay, because if you just have a vision of a baby rhino, what do you see? Do baby rhinos look playful?
Speaker 1:Running along, maybe. What do you see? Does the baby rhinos look playful running along? Maybe I don't, I'm not sure I don't I've. Uh, actually I I was in africa and I did pet a baby white rhino, um, but uh, I didn't see him running around. But they, they trouble around, but they, they trouble around. I know that they, they bounce around almost, but uh, you you, you associate baby rhinos with baby rhinos, with play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I love that when they're running around, they look like they're just having the most fun. That's cool, that's cool, as long as I don't, as long as I don't meet a hippo that is, oh yeah, woof.
Speaker 1:As long as they don't meet a hippo. That is yeah, those things are yeah. That's another story of craziness. Those animals are nuts, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So where can people find you online? What's the best place?
Speaker 1:If you have a hernia hewmyherniacom, that's the place I have free. I have what I did, for free, of course, like this listing of all things I did, but you can also buy it. There's a protocol which you can download and I'll go through more of the videos and stuff, and then you know there is private coaching if you need the extra help. But, humi, hernia for Hernias. Hackito, hack I do, hack I do, or hackitoorg or com. That's for the play course. Hack I do, or hackitoorg or com, that's for the play course. I have a free juggling course there. It's the world's best juggling course, but it teaches you how to make nice juggling balls and steps that most people do not know to do.
Speaker 1:Juggling, and that, for me, is like, if there's one thing you can learn how to do in your world, learn how to juggle. It is the way to activate your brain. You can always learn new, different tricks and it can keep you entertained for the rest of your life. Um, so that's, and I show you. I have a stencil thing to show you how to make these things, as well as kids, um, and if you like origami, I have an amazing origami uh website too. Um, but that one's craniogamiorg. That's a little more challenging to to spell out, but that's for folding your brain into shape.
Speaker 2:It's another big thing that I've got a black belt in origami. Ah, nice sweet so.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's uh, yeah, it's, uh, I like the way you said that but uh, yeah, origami. Origami is extraordinary for us. Another underrated brain exercise, so I really believe it's. You know, I go to senior centers and work with them with origami too, so it's awesome. Yeah, it's a fun way of doing it. But those are most of my websites, and I also have an art website. I do artwork too, but that's my, so the beautiful pictures of kawaii is my. I drew all the time on kawaii and so I'm it's my, it's my love. But they're all interconnected, so if you go to one of them, you're gonna have links to the other ones or whatever. So it's all, but it's you know yeah right, excellent zonda.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for your time it's it's been really fun thank you every time yeah, I've had a really, really good discussion with you today and it is an important topic, I think, you know. I think, again, as adults, we think about play. I mean, I know, obviously we spoke about, you know, the hernias, but, but play is a very important subject too and I think most of us as adults probably need to schedule in play time because that's probably the only way we're really ever going to do it. Yeah, um, but there's, you know, and what we've discussed today. There's lots of options, whether it's hacky sack or frisbee or you know, whatever it might be. Or if you've got kids, play, play with your kids 100.
Speaker 1:They're the, they're the juice of play. I mean you just, and they'll show you how to play, they'll show you different ways of playing, they'll be creative with it, but yeah you just got to rev it up. You just got to rev it up. That's the thing is. Once you rev it up, then you'll find play in everything you know. Play can be part of everything. It's not exclusive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well said, yeah, well said. So that's all from Xander and me for this week, but don't forget to join me same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel.
Speaker 1:Podcast. Thank you, blessings.
Speaker 2:Thanks for tuning in. Remember to give the show a rating and a review, and I'll see you next time.
