Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
149 - Circadian Rhythms, Detox & Emotions: The Missing Links in Gut Healing with Robin Malmasson
In this week’s episode of the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, I’m joined by fellow CHEK Practitioner Robin Malmasson for a deep and insightful conversation on Important Factors to Achieve Good Gut Health.
Gut health is a hot topic these days, but there's still a lot of confusion around what actually causes gut issues—and more importantly, how to truly heal them. In this episode, Robin and I unpack some of the most misunderstood aspects of gut health, including why quick fixes like probiotics or Low FODMAP diets often miss the mark.
We dive into the real root causes of gut dysfunction, from disrupted circadian rhythms and poor light hygiene, to the overlooked role of emotions, fasting, detoxification, and even our relationship with the sun and vitamin D.
Robin shares his unique insights on the correct order of operations when addressing gut issues and why getting this sequence wrong can leave people stuck in cycles of chronic symptoms.
If you’re ready to go beyond the surface and understand what it really takes to build a healthy gut from the inside out, you won’t want to miss this conversation.
We discussed:
0:00
Robin's Health Journey and Background
9:54
Stress and Digestion: The Antagonistic Relationship
16:04
The Circadian Rhythm's Impact on Gut Health
26:20
Common Misconceptions About Digestive Health
32:30
Sunlight, Blue Light and Their Effects on Healing
44:39
The Truth About Fasting for Gut Health
51:20
The Role of Detoxification and Drainage Pathways
1:16:17
Emotional Health and Its Connection to Digestion
1:26:13
Wrap-Up and Robin's Future Projects
You can find Robin @:
https://www.instagram.com/robin.malmasson/
https://www.youtube.com/@robinmalmasson
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh's website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Substack - https://substack.com/@radicalhealthrebel
YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
Rumble Channel - https://rumble.com/user/RadicalHealthRebel
Leigh's courses:
StickAbility - https://stickabilitycourse.com/
Mastering Client Transformation - https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/mastering-client-transformation/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
And over time it came to the point where my mind was almost expecting to feel bad an hour, two hours after a meal, and so, yeah, it came with gas and constipation, bowel movements that were not optimal. So that was kind of the typical constellation of symptoms I was experiencing, and I would say that to some extent my joint pain was very much gut-related as well.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. I'm your host, lee Brandon. This work started for me several decades ago when I started to see the impact I could make on people, helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out, including serious back, knee, shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed, and it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show. In this week's episode of the Radical Health Ripple Podcast, I'm joined by fellow Czech practitioner, robin Malmarsson, for a deep and insightful conversation on important factors to achieve good gut health.
Speaker 2:Gut health is a hot topic these days, but there's still a lot of confusion around what actually causes gut issues and, more importantly, how to truly heal them. In this episode, robin and I unpack some of the most misunderstood aspects of gut health, including why quick fixes like probiotics or low FODMAP diets often miss the mark. We dive into the real root causes of gut dysfunction, from disrupted circadian rhythms and poor light hygiene to the overlooked role of emotions, fasting, detoxification and even our relationship with the sun and vitamin D. Robin shares his unique insights on the correct order of operations when addressing gut issues and why getting this sequence wrong can leave people stuck in cycles of chronic symptoms. If you're ready to go beyond the surface and understand what it really takes to build a healthy gut from the inside out, you won't want to miss this conversation. Robin Malmason, welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me, Lee. It's good to see you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great to have you here, robin, and to kick things off, could you share a little bit about your professional and educational background, and could you also share some of your own health struggles as well?
Speaker 1:Sure, I'm actually glad that you ended the question this way, because they are inextricably linked In that, from as far back as I can recall, I've always been a tired kid when I was young. As I can recall, I've always been a tired kid when I was young, and basically roughly around the age of 16, 17,. 18 is when I really started to want to look better. So in terms of my health journey, it's really started with this background of issues plus my desire for kind of superficial aesthetic goals. And so this is how I started uh, resistance training, and this is what led me to start diving into this world, first, off of fitness and other things.
Speaker 1:Now, with that said, my formal education initially is as an engineer, so I'm more from coming from a scientific background. Um, studied all the the common subjects like mathematics, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, classical mechanics, all that stuff, and eventually became a computer engineer. But meanwhile I was suffering with my own issues and it went from simply fatigue to joint issues, to chronic gut health issues, anxiety, insomnia, all things like that. And so during my spare time as I was working as an engineer, I would just research, research, research and experiment with things, which is a very important point, not just staying in theory but actually trying things in practice, which is a very important point not just staying in theory, but actually trying things in practice. And obviously I bumped my head against several walls trying different methods that did not work for me, not necessarily because the method was wrong, but because it was not right for me right now. And long story short, like one year into my work as a computer engineer, I had a depression after my summer holiday, summer vacation, and I was like, oh, I'm not supposed to be doing this anymore.
Speaker 1:And basically in my spare time, with my research, my passion and interest for this field let's call it health and fitness grew steadily.
Speaker 1:And interest for this field let's call it health and fitness grew steadily and because I've always liked teaching even when I was more in science I was mentoring younger students and I love teaching like the idea of becoming some kind of a therapist, of an educator, of a coach in the health field became obvious.
Speaker 1:And so it's one year later that I quit my job as an engineer and ended up enrolling in the Czech Academy, which is how I met you, lee, and so that's been my formal education in this field. But I don't want to dismiss all the countless hours spent researching online, listening to podcasts like this one, reading books, watching conferences, which has really allowed me to build like a really broad understanding of how things should go, like how things work, in a more like, say, holistic way, in that I always ask myself the question why does it make sense? Right now? And that's really helping me to figure things out for my clients now, because now I'm I'm working, um, as we can call that a health coach and uh, yeah, like basically my whole background in science is really helping me as well to decipher many of the things that we can hear in the health field as well.
Speaker 2:So one of the things you said was you didn't feel like it was right for you to be an engineer anymore.
Speaker 1:Why do you think that was so? For several reasons. One of them that was certainly a big one was the lack of meaning in my work. I felt like a cog in a wheel, and when I was looking at my boss or senior employees, I was like I don't want to be like that in a few years. That's one criteria like one reason. That's one criteria like one reason. Another reason would be simply that I did not like the idea of being stuck in front of a computer and not being free.
Speaker 1:Basically, that was really something that was going against the grain of my soul. That's the best way I can describe it. It was just like, yeah, like really against my nature, and it just like I felt empty inside and I knew that. Conversely, um, the summer vacation I took right before the depression hit me, I was spending time outdoors, I was learning how to practice qigong and sharing it with a friend, so I had this kind of teaching experience and I was just living the best life, and the contrast between the two was really like oh, that's why I like I need to make things change and would you say it was um, the reason why you kind of went down the the health route was basically motivated by your, your kind own health history.
Speaker 2:Would that be right?
Speaker 1:For sure. Initially, especially, yeah, I was like there was something inherently wrong with being tired all the time, having gut issues all the time, and especially bear in mind that. So it was in my early 20s, like late teens, early 20s and at this age, like most of my friends were, on average, not taking care of their health at all. Some were either not exercising at all or over exercising for, like, aesthetic reasons. Many were partying all the time and da, da, da, da da, whereas, in contrast, at this, I was already going to bed at like nine, sometimes earlier, because I was tired.
Speaker 1:I was trying to eat healthy, like with the best definition of healthy I had back then. I was exercising, I was meditating and despite all these things, I was still experiencing my symptoms. And so there was this deep frustration when I was comparing myself with my friends at this time and which really was covering a sense of sadness, it's like it's unfair. But that certainly motivated me to figure things out. And there is another trait about me, which is that I don't like not knowing, so it's like I need to get to the bottom of things, because I don't like being left in this. You know, I don't really know what's going on, and so that's another fuel.
Speaker 2:That's uh propelled my my search yeah, so we're going to talk in detail a bit more about gut health. But what? What was the kind of gut health issues that you tended to suffer from yourself?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I'll share most more like the symptoms. I don't know if you could put one word on it, but obviously the anxiety had a gut health component because, as we know, the the gut health and the brain, like they affect each other. Um, so anxiety was one, but the big one was I just looked and felt bloated most of the time, um, like lower abdominal bloating, even though I was not overweight. I looked like I had excess weight in the lower abdomen and I just, whatever I ate, I did not feel good. I never had this sense of I'm satiated but I feel light. It was like, and over time, like it.
Speaker 1:It came to the point where my mind was almost expecting to feel bad an hour, two hours after a meal, right, and so yeah, and it came with gas and constipation, bowel movements that were not optimal and da da da. So that was kind of the typical constellation of symptoms I was experiencing and I would think I would say that, um, to some extent my joint pain was very much gut related as well and I had which was not as big of a deal for me, but it was still it's still relevant I had a pretty dry skin as well, which those things pretty much cleared up once I improved my gut health yeah, it sounds a bit like you know the symptoms that you mentioned.
Speaker 2:You know, if you went to see, say, a medical doctor, they'd say, oh, you've got irritable bowel syndrome. Yeah nowadays which, again, as we know, doesn't actually tell you anything. Right, it's just a group of symptoms lumped together, but it also sounds a little bit. The symptoms that you mentioned sounds to me a little bit like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
Speaker 1:Again, yeah, may or may not have been I I kind of, yeah, I worked with the practitioner at some point and he said, like that's what I had. And uh, after researching it myself, I was like, yeah, that sounds like it. And um, that's why I went through a period of reducing the fodmaps and things like that to alleviate these symptoms, while working on the root cause, which is an important point, because it's not just about removing what triggers you. It's like, why is it triggering you in the first place?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, I've definitely had that yeah, yeah, that makes sense in your experience. What would you say are the key factors that contribute towards gut health issues? Amanda spent 19 years battling severe iBS, diarrhea and abdominal pain. Her life was ruled by public toilets and she avoided holidays for fear of flare-ups. Doctors offered no solutions, just endless Imodium. After working together, amanda discovered the root causes of her symptoms and in just three months she was IBS free. She even booked her first holiday with her husband a dream come true. If you're struggling like Amanda, visit wwwbodycheckcouk to schedule your consultation.
Speaker 1:Let's find the root cause and get your life back so it's kind of a rabbit hole a little bit, um, and for that I will. So I will start with kind of a principle, which is that stress and digestion are what we call antagonists, meaning that just like I cannot inhale and exhale at the same time, my body cannot stress out and digest at the same time. And so when we understand that, we're like, oh so, basically anything anything that causes stress can potentially harm my digestion. Now, obviously it's not the only cause, I will get to that by digestion. Now, obviously it's not the other the only cause I will get to that.
Speaker 1:But when we consider the fact that most people are pretty much in a constant, mild to moderate state of fight or flight or stressful state because, like society, because we were never taught how to manage the mind, because, whatever reason, like the, basically, the more we are in resistance to life, the more we are in a not peaceful state, so that's one big kind of worms already. Like, anything that stresses the body can lead to digestive issues, and especially I've found more, if we want to be more specific like issues with stomach, which then kind of cascades into issues with the pancreas, the liver and so on and so forth, then I would say like basically a combination of nutritional deficiencies and a high toxic burden. So again, the more stress, the more stress the body is, the more we need nutrients to kind of compensate and meet this demand.
Speaker 1:but unfortunately we are also less fed than ever before, like less nourished we are overfed but undernourished, and, unfortunately as well, that we live in a world that's more and more toxic, which, at some point in my life, the just the fact of knowing this caused me anxiety, which is not helpful yeah um, and I like to remember because I have clients like that and I like to remind them that of all the systems of the body, the chief remains, remains the mind, and so if we can manage to cultivate a peaceful mind, whatever else we do, it's already a big win.
Speaker 1:And the last thing I will mention, because it's a topic I've deeply researched and it's probably one of my favorites it's everything that goes with circadian rhythm, mismatch and basically our modern, modern relationship with the sun and light in general yeah, yeah, I mean that's, that's quite a big one.
Speaker 2:And, um, you know, an episode as we record this, an episode that came out a few weeks ago. We spoke about that in quite a lot of detail and what. What is quite interesting as well. And you know we were just having a chat before we started, well, and you know we were just having a chat before we started recording and you know we were talking about the lack of sunlight that we get these days.
Speaker 2:You know, because, well, it would seem, you know, if you, if you believe what you can see with your eyes, that there are things being sprayed in the sky to to block the sun, and there are certain um shall we call leaders of this world who have said we need to block out the sun because otherwise we're all going to burn to death, right, yeah, so obviously that's playing a role, but obviously the other thing you know I'm guessing you're talking about as well is is that you know, for instance, the times that we sleep and and the ability to get out into nature and actually get the sunshine on our bodies as well yeah, so it's all of the above and I'm happy to go as deep as you want me to go, but and I literally made a post yesterday about the connection between skin aging, or so-called skin aging, and sunlight, but yeah, it's the combination, like sun, I'll say, because it's such a fast topic so one big component is what we call the circadian rhythm, and for people to grasp the importance of it, let's picture a busy airport.
Speaker 1:So a busy airport. Obviously there are many planes landing, taxiing, taking off and so on. Now, the only way that this airport can function smoothly and without any incidents is thanks to the control tower that orchestrates everything, and what the control tower really does is ensuring that the timing is right. So there is no plane landing on the strip when another one is trying to take off. So it's basically a timing thing, and obviously we can very easily imagine what would happen if the control tower was not working, like crashes and so on. So if we go back to the body and look at this analogy, the control tower is basically the circadian rhythm of the whole organism and when it's off and planes are crashing, so-called, this is what we call inflammation and basically inefficiency in our physiology, in our physiology. So, as it relates to gut health, basically all our, all the cells in our body have clock genes which are basically synced in theory, synced with our light environment, specifically blue light and I'm happy to explain why blue light specifically and they are supposed to be primed for action at certain times of the day and primed for repair at other times of the day. So if we take the example of leaky gut, which is a very common term we hear nowadays, well, the gut is supposed to, like the gut lining is supposed to be replaced every two to three days if things go well, and one of the things that controls that is the circadian rhythm, because at night things are supposed to be repaired, whereas during the day things are supposed to be active and working on their digestive duties. So already we can understand that when the circadian rhythm is off we slow down gut repair. We also kind of decrease our ability to secrete digestive enzymes at the right time, or maybe bile at the right time from the liver.
Speaker 1:So that's more like the circadian rhythm component, um, but then like actual direct sunlight, whether we talk about the infrared wavelength, the red wavelength, the ultraviolet or uv wavelength, they all have specific effects when they are touching the skin, which involve, like regulating the immune system, regulating inflammation, regulating the gut microbiome. So it's a pretty, really wide topic which which we can go in any direction, but, yeah, like in practice, it involves being mindful of the light environment we are in. So it means ideally spending as much time outdoors as possible during the day and at night, when the sun is not up, we want to minimize the amount of artificial light that we are exposed to, so it could be literally disconnecting our devices, and if it's not realistic because I still use my devices at night, it means filtering out as much blue light as possible so I've just spent the last two weeks teaching courses indoors, from the time I wake up in the morning to the time I go to bed and, uh, fortunately the sun is out now in the uk so I can actually get out there now.
Speaker 2:But you know, obviously, for what you've said, the last two weeks has probably not been optimal for me, because all I've got, all all I've had access to, is artificial light. Yes, I've got blue light blocking glasses that I can wear in the evening, but other than that I didn't see the sun Right Apart from I had one day off and it was a little bit sunny on that day. So what you're telling me is I need to get out in the sun today.
Speaker 1:Basically, Basically, yeah, years I need to get out in the sun today, basically, basically, yeah, and actually it's a. It's an interesting use case because many people are in what, in the situation you are, you have experienced in the past couple weeks and the question becomes like, okay, I shared what is ideal, but now what is realistic? Because, again, I don't want to induce more stress in people, I want to actually empower them. And so what we have to realize is, contrary to how our mind tends to work, our mind tends to work in a very linear way, the body, especially when we work with light, which is a quantum phenomenon I don't like to use that word because it's kind of thrown around for marketing purposes, but fundamentally light is a quantum phenomenon. It was studied like in depth through quantum physics. But the point I'm trying to make is that when we work with light, things work in a nonlinear way, meaning that a small input can have exponential results or outputs. And the reason I'm saying that is that, for example, well, I don't know how, like at what time, the sun was rising when you were doing your classes, but even two to three minutes being outside staring at the sky eastward is enough to set your circadian rhythm in motion. So that's one thing, like two to three, three minutes. The most important thing is to be consistent, not to be like 20 minutes one time a week and not at all the rest of the week. And the other thing is like, okay, like to what extent can I manipulate the environment? I will be working in so that the light is at least less harmful, because there are two main issues with artificial lighting, which, by the way, sunlight coming through a window is considered artificial lighting as well.
Speaker 1:But when it comes specifically to screens and LED light bulbs, there are two main issues.
Speaker 1:To screens and LED light bulbs, there are two main issues. One is that they tend to have an excess of blue light of the blue wavelength compared to the other colors, and they have literally almost zero red of the red wavelength, red color and no infrared, except when we were using incandescent bulbs, which is another topic and same for screens. So the first issue is that there is an excess of blue. The second issue, which is more tied to the circadian rhythm and again I'm happy to explain why that matters, um is that the amount of blue in those devices, in those bulbs, does not change from hour to hour, as opposed to what our brain expects from how the sun moves in the sky. So if we can slightly shift maybe these like the screens we use, the bulbs we use then we can basically reduce the harm that can be done from working so much indoors so are you saying you can actually I don't know use some kind of device where you can actually change the amount of blue light coming from devices?
Speaker 1:yes, so when it comes to, I will start with um. I'll start with computers, so it works with both desktops and laptops. There is a software that you can put in the description for the listeners. It's called Iris Tech, and basically the first thing it does is it reduces blue light, which is always good to take, and what it does is it has a mode called the automatic mode which, based on your location, it will adjust the amount of blue light based on where the sun is at in the sky, and it does that automatically. So, again, it minimizes the impact of staring at your screen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting Again, that software was mentioned in a previous episode. I did the trial actually. Maybe I need to get that. Get that back up and it's um.
Speaker 1:It has then a night mode for after sunset, which I I'm always using, which is basically removing all the light from the screen and of course it takes a little bit getting used to and of course, if you work in like video editing or graphic design, you can't really do that. You have to have the accurate colors. But if you just read or even watch some youtube videos for entertainment or education, whatever which is what I do it works perfectly. And what I've found because I've read I recommend that to pretty much all my clients um is there is some resistance at the beginning because I I want to enjoy my thing and that. But first of all, after a few days maybe a week, 10 days they get used to it, so they don't mind watching their favorite show with the screen red and, number two, the sleep quality they derive from that is just worth it. Yeah, like I don't want to go back I mean just using blue light blocking glasses.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm fortunate that I'm someone that's always slept really well. I've never really had a problem with sleep, um, to the annoyance of other people, um. But even when I just started wearing blue light, uh, blocking glasses in the evening, I could still feel an improvement in my sleep, whereas I already felt that my sleep was perfect anyway.
Speaker 1:But then, you know, I'll be waking up in the morning and I'd feel even more refreshed than previously and what you are sharing is actually, um, it's making a good point, because I have many people and I'm sure you've had this kind of clients as well that say, oh, I feel good, or oh, I already sleep well, and they say that in a way that I don't need your thing, I don't need your recommendation. And there is this. It's kind of this bias that we have as humans is that we tend to forget that things could be even better, right and um, so it just you. You make a good point.
Speaker 2:I just want to highlight that yeah, and the other thing is as well is that you know you might say to yourself well, I already feel good, but compared to what exactly?
Speaker 1:yeah it's like, it's not an absolute, like, what does it mean?
Speaker 2:yeah, but also if you're comparing yourself to the average right, the average is in a pretty bad state anyway. Yeah. So if you're good compared to average which you know the average isn't great it doesn't necessarily mean that you're optimal yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a B plus, yeah, great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a b plus, yeah, great, yeah, yeah. So what do you feel are the most common misconceptions when it?
Speaker 1:comes to restoring digestive health. Um, so I'll share what I observe the most often. It's number one, I think it's probably the biggest. It is the idea that taking away some foods sometimes foods that are not even problematic depends on someone's philosophy, is the solution is, there is this phenomenon in which we almost believe that a clean diet is one that almost has nothing in it, like no diversity, and I've observed that many, many times.
Speaker 1:And it feeds into the second point I want to make, which is, uh, very often things are done out of order, so like I've seen people popping probiotics assuming that it will cure their problem, just like they would pop a pill right and when, from my perspective, I'm like you don't need to address your microbiome just yet.
Speaker 1:It's like your upper digestive system, like the stomach, the pancreas, that's not working properly. Therefore, you can pop all the probiotics you want, but the issues will come back because you're not digesting your food properly. Therefore, it will keep fermenting and putrefying in your small intestine and it will keep creating like problematic and so on. So I would say these are the biggest misconceptions, like focusing too much on taking some foods away but that's the end of the protocol, and or doing things out of order, which I believe, and I went there. I'm not pointing fingers. I was there and I have compassion because we do the best we can with our level of awareness and our level of knowledge, but doing things out of order because we don't just understand anatomy and physiology and how the body works yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, again, sometimes I'll take on a client and they're almost expecting me to say take this probiotic, take this, take that, and it's like, well, hang on a minute. We've got to cover the foundations first, right, and as you know, in the Czech system we teach six foundation factors, number one being the mind. And that's where I tend to start with all my clients is the mind. And again, those of you that don't already know, I've got a course for people to do if they want to really bulletproof their mindset before they start on a health improvement program. It's called Stickability, and again you can check that in the show notes program. It's called Stickability, and again you can check that in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Did you know that 92% of people fail to follow through on their New Year's resolutions? That's right. Year after year, most of us start strong and then lose momentum by February Sound familiar, but what if this year could be different? What if you finally had the tools to make your goals stick? Introducing Stickability, a simple, effective and affordable program designed to help you overcome the cycle of failed resolutions. In just a short time, you'll learn how to create lasting habits without wasting hours or breaking the bank. This isn't just another plan. It's the solution to finally sticking to your healthy lifestyle goals. Don't let this year be like the last. Head over to stickabilitycoursecom now to enroll. It's affordable, easy to follow and packed with tools to make 2025 the year that you have the ability to make it stick.
Speaker 2:So you've got to start with the mind first, and for a number of reasons, but an important aspect that I cover in that course is that you can have the best information in the world, so you could come to someone like me or yourself, or like Robin, and you could have the best nutrition plan. You could have the best nutrition plan. You could have the best exercise plan. You could be clear on what's the best times for you to sleep. But if you don't do it because you've got some I don't let's call it subconscious thing that's stopping you from doing it, or even conscious thing that's stopping you from doing it, the program's not going to work anyway.
Speaker 2:Right, and it goes, you know, obviously the mind goes a lot, a lot deeper than that. And then, obviously, as we know, breathing is important and again, we've been discussing, you know, nervous system regulation. That's going to, you know, again. If you learn how to breathe properly, that's going to help with that. Hydration comes next. Again, you can. You can pop all the pills you want, but if you're not fully hydrated, your cells just aren't going to function properly. Then you've got the diet, then you've got movement and then, as we've already spoken about the circadian rhythm, right, once you've got all those six things in place, then you can start to consider okay, do I need to support my digestion? Do I need to enhance my hydrochloric acid so I can break down the foods? Do I need more enzymes, which you might do if you've got a leaky gut syndrome, for instance?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 1:So I found that some just to make this case, like some people do, like basically, we can get into a situation with gut health issues where it becomes a visual circle and so basically, like the most basic visual circle is I don't produce enough hydrochloric acid, so stomach acid.
Speaker 1:Therefore, I can't digest my proteins and it's also impacting my pancreatic enzymes, so I'm not basically absorbing what I eat. Therefore, I either perpetuate or increase my nutritional deficiencies that's were leading to the lack of stomach acid in the first place. So we have this vicious circle and it's in this kind of situation it is helpful that, on top of all the basic things that you've mentioned and that I always cover with my clients, it can be make the journey a lot smoother and more enjoyable, in a way, for clients to have some supplements that help break the cycle, because otherwise progress will be slow and again, as you know, from creating this course on the mind, uh, some people have expectations that it should be instant. So when you can provide some kind of like intelligent supplementation not not as a crutch but as a smart thing to insert in the system right now to get out of the visual circle, it can help with adherence to program and just results yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the term for that is intelligent allopathy, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:so yeah, I mean again, absolutely right, if you can't digest your food properly because there's a lack of hydrochloric acid, there are things that you can use to increase either your own production of hydrochloric acid or to have exogenous hydrochloric acid to help break your food down. But, as long as that's done intelligently, then that's all well and good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when we look at what, what does it take to produce hydrochloric acid? It's like well, even if you have all the like ingredients in place, so like chloride, zinc, vitamin b1, even if you have all these and let's assume that you have enough thyroid hormones to actually produce it, well, if you're stressed out it will still go against that. So even like, even if you have all the, let's say, like the targeted vitamins and the whatever, but you're still stressed out, then it's like won't work yeah, yeah, or even dehydrated, right yeah dehydrated it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:So, again, you can, you can take all the probiotics you want and you know and again at the right time, that they're still, they still can be very useful. But, as you were saying, you've got to do it in the right order. You've got to have the foundations in place first, otherwise you probably, you're probably wasting your money and that's, I think, probably possibly why a lot of people find they do supplement protocols and they say, oh, I've just wasted a load of money and it probably wasn't the wrong protocol, but, as you were saying, it was done at the wrong time in the wrong order, whereas if you had all those foundations in place first, then you probably would have got the result from it.
Speaker 1:That's it. And then what I observe is because of the way our mind works as humans, um, like, in order to make meaning out of this complex world, we tend to generalize things or put things in the box. And so when we have one or two or more experiences where supplements or like natural approaches don't work, we tend to say oh, natural doesn't work, like generalized things, and it's like.
Speaker 1:No, it's just like in this case, it was not properly doesn't mean that it will never work for no one, um, but it's just interesting to see how people come to their conclusions, because usually the people coming to me are not the what you might call the average person. That's in usually really bad shape. Usually the people coming to me are people who have tried things and they already have kind of knowledge from left and right, like from social media and what I've heard and da, da, da, and so, yeah, they have had experience, they've had experience and sometimes they end up confused, sometimes they end up resentful, but uh, yeah, it's very common and the other important thing is as well on that aspect, is that again, what might work for one person might not work for the next person.
Speaker 2:It's all got to be very hundred percent individualized and there is no, you know, one size fits all approach. It's got to be very client centered 100 now.
Speaker 1:Like, obviously there are principles that work across the board for all of human biology. But yeah, this is where, like interviewing the client, knowing what they tend to eat, what their psycho-emotional landscape is, and obviously using like questionnaires or some kind of assessment to be like, okay, I can tell that it's actually your stomach specifically that's lacking, or maybe it's your pancreas or whatever. So obviously, like on top of the foundational principles, it's like what is it that your body is really asking for right now, which is not? Is it that your body is really asking for right now, which is not what your neighbor's body may be asking for?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. The other thing you mentioned was about eliminating foods from the diet and over eliminating. Could you maybe elaborate a little bit more on that or maybe give us an example of where someone might have kind of over-eliminated foods from their diet?
Speaker 1:Sure. So, just as a kind of preface, I don't want to throw any philosophy under the bus. Um, I think in terms like, philosophically speaking, like everybody's right to have their own beliefs, but a common one, I see, is like not eating enough protein, and particularly animal, animal protein, um, and some of the reasons that that are invoked. Or it creates acidity in the body, which I'm happy to debunk, um, it's um, and. Or just like it causes acid reflux, or I feel heavy when I eat it.
Speaker 1:So, again, it's a very common human phenomenon which we tend to blame the thing outside of ourselves, instead of questioning our own responsibility in it. Right, so it's like. Instead of saying, um, what's my part in it? Like, why can't my body consume this food in this case, it's meat that our ancestors have been consuming for whatever how long time, instead of asking this question and basically taking responsibility, we tend to blame the food and take it away. So I took meat because it's the most iconic example, but fodmaps as well. We can remove fodmaps, like too harshly or for too long, and then it leads to back to the microbiome. It leads to issues with not enough diversity, not enough fiber or potentially nutritional deficiencies, because it's taking a lot of plant foods out.
Speaker 1:So, but yeah, like it could be the ketogenic diet. It's like, okay, sugar is bad, therefore I can take it away. But it's like, why is sugar bad? Like why can't your body handle that, right? Um, so we don't ask the right questions and um, it doesn't mean that the ketogenic diet never works or it's not appropriate. It's like I don't. I just think that we need to ask the right questions and ask like is it right for me right now?
Speaker 2:again, yeah, yeah, I mean the fob ones is quite interesting, because what I've come to appreciate is that if someone's, let's say, bloating is stimulated by eating high FODMAP foods, by reducing or eliminating the high FODMAP foods it can help reduce symptomology, which there's definite benefit to that. What it doesn't do and I think perhaps you were probably alluding to this it still doesn't solve the problem, right? It doesn't get to the root cause of the problem, correct? And I think some people might have the belief that, you know not, not eating high FODMAP foods rest of their life is going to solve the problem. The problem is still going to be there, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, if they don't address it like sweeping it under the rug yeah.
Speaker 2:So and again coming back to kind of what you were saying, if someone doesn't, doesn't have enough hydrochloric acid in the stomach, if they don't have the enzymes in their gut, then the food's not going to get digested very well. That's going to be harder to absorb the nutrients, it's going to be harder to break down those tissues, probably going to slow down motility and it's going to lead to something like you know, a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, yep. So by just just reducing those foods that trigger the problem isn't going to solve the problem no you know, and again it could be, it could be mental emotional issue.
Speaker 2:that again it could be, could be stress that's slowing down motility and if those things aren't addressed, you know, and eating a reduced fODMAP diet isn't going to solve your hydrochloric acid problem or your mental stress, or whatever it might be, yeah, exactly Now.
Speaker 1:At the same time, I do have compassion for people, because when we suffer and obviously I've been there the first and foremost thing that we want is to not suffer. So any type of symptom relief. Suffer so any type of symptom relief. We'll take it now. The issue is not this, because it's natural, like any animal wants that, wants to be free of suffering.
Speaker 1:The issue is, when we stop there, right, it's like oh, I don't have pain which is by the way, a more, it's a broader issue, right with even musculoskeletal issue is like oh, I don't have pain, therefore I can go back to my activity. But he's like no, the body's not ready. So we we just make the mistake of equating lack of pain with we are healed yeah, yeah, and it can.
Speaker 2:You know, you met. You mentioned meat as an example. You know people. People feel that they, you know, don't do well eating me, or they feel heavy eating me, or they can't break down meat. And, as you were saying, maybe it's not the bait, maybe it's the person, or at least some imbalances in the person, that doesn't enable them to eat what you might consider to be a species specific diet. Right, yeah, but it almost goes the other way as well. To a degree, you know, particularly people with autoimmune conditions, they cut out all the plant-based foods and their symptoms go away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, um, and and I think again, because it's a relatively, relatively new phenomenon in terms of in you know, in modern times, that people are eating purely, purely animal-based diet and clearly, clearly getting good short-term benefits from that. I just think what would be really interesting is to, you know, maybe in 10, 15 years time, look back and if there are still people that are continuing to eat that way, what you know what kind of condition they're in. I'm just really interested. I don't have any, you know, I'm not, I'm not on any team. I just think whatever works for the person, it works for the person, um, but in my, in my experience again, you know, going through the, the process of what we call metabolic typing and and getting people to monitor their own uh, energy levels, their own satiety levels, their emotion levels after eating, helps people to fine-tune what's right for them.
Speaker 2:And after 20 plus years of doing that, I'm still yet to find someone who's optimum at a purely vegetable-based diet or at a purely animal-based diet. It's always somewhere in the middle and they can be quite close to the extremes. I mean I'm pretty close to carnivore, where I feel like my best, but I know if I go pure carnivore I don't feel quite as good. I've tried doing that and again, I've had people I mean, I've worked with a lot of vegetarians as well and you know, the more let's just say the more fat that they eat, the better they feel. And the question I've always got in my mind is if they were willing to make that leap into eating animal-based foods, how much better, potentially, would they feel? And again, it's a question that you'll never know until they try, right? Because, yeah, you know, as I say, you know, pun intended, the proof is always in the pudding, right?
Speaker 1:right on and and.
Speaker 2:Until you try it, you don't know. Because people say to me oh, our tomato is good for me, so try it, try it and see, test it and see right yeah, it's like becoming your own little scientist, basically yeah but yeah, like, I'm also equally interested with a more like long-term hindsight, uh, about more like carnivore based approaches, but in terms of like what we can presume, it's like it's.
Speaker 1:It's quite a lot of iron, for example, and iron in excess is very pro, like it's oxidative stress. Basically, we know that and especially for men, we, unless we fight and bleed, we don't have a an easy way to get rid of iron. Yeah, um, so there is that and like, obviously, you don't have an easy way to get rid of iron.
Speaker 1:So there is that, and obviously you don't have much vitamin C. Some people say, yeah, raw liver has some, yeah, sure, but not a ton of vitamin C, which we do need for many things, including liver phase 2 detoxification and recycling, glutathione, things like that. So we can speculate on what could happen. Um, but again, we, we don't really know. I have found also that a nice sweet spot between the two uh, has to be found for each individual, and what I've observed, and I felt prey to this early on in my health journey, is I had the belief, partly because I was influenced by what the government says, what tends to be recommended by the government, or just like some, a group, like a sub group of influencers, which is like the more vegetables the better, and uh, that's actually when I felt the worst is when I was eating a bunch of vegetables.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean again. I've mentioned this many times on the podcast before, but for the first 30 years of my life I was constipated. I just didn't know right, Because I had a bowel movement every day. I didn't understand you could still be constipated and have a bowel movement every day.
Speaker 2:The fact that it took 30 minutes each each time probably should have rung alarm bells, but I didn't know any different, right yeah and then when I found out my metabolic type and I started eating a predominantly animal based with a small amount of plant-based foods within, you know, literally within a day, my bowel movements became what I now understand to be normal.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's interesting what you say about iron as well, because, um, I guess I'm a good case history for that because, again, yes, I eat a lot of animal-based foods, predominantly, you know, ruminant animals. I do eat a little bit of chicken as well and a lot of eggs, but whenever I've done bloods, my iron levels are very high. And, interestingly, the other thing as well is just that, um, as a protective mechanism, what can also happen if you've got high iron levels, it can also increase your sex hormone binding globulin, which then lowers your free testosterone. So I've got the total testosterone levels of like a 19-year-old right, even though I'm more than almost triple that age, but my free testosterone is very low because my sex hormone binding globulin is high, which is probably because of my high iron levels.
Speaker 2:So the only thing I can do is donate blood as regularly as possible that's right but even that in the uk it's very hard to to do it often enough yeah, and if you get acupuncture, for example, you call what's that?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, like if you get a acupuncture treatment, they won't allow you to donate for like three or six months, I don't remember yeah, so, yeah, so it's it's uh, it's a very, it's a very interesting uh situation when it comes to, you know, specific diets and and the other thing you know again, just to just to mention it as well is that, again, I know if I eat, if I was to eat more vegetables, now this goes against completely against the grain. If I eat more vegetables, more fiber, my bowel movements aren't as good.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if you look at all the research, the research would say, well, that's nonsense yeah, you need like the 35 gram a day for a man of fiber to have a proper intake and proper bowel movements.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like and then again, if you speak to a carnivore and again I've had carnivores on this podcast they don't eat any fiber at all and they've got what you might consider a perfect bowel movements yeah, you know, yeah it's.
Speaker 1:I mean fiber helps with the bulk especially and it can help to sweep toxins and things like that, but it's not a de facto uh prerequisite to have a bowel movement like if even if we look at the inuits, for example like traditionally, at least like ain't any vegetables over there.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, so would you say there are, or what do you think in terms of yeah, are there any unconventional lifestyle factors that you consider important to healing? Hey, rebels, did you know? I now produce an exclusive no Punches Pulled episode every month. These episodes feature controversial guests who aren't afraid to expose lies, share stories of being gaslit or cancelled and provide real-world solutions for achieving optimal health and maintaining your freedom. These are the kind of episodes that got me cancelled back in 2022, off freedom. These are the kind of episodes that got me cancelled back in 2022, booted off Facebook, twitter, youtube and even de-platformed from LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:But I'm still here and these powerful episodes are available exclusive for subscribers only. For the price of just one takeaway coffee per month, you'll gain access to content the authorities don't want you to hear. By subscribing, you're not just supporting the Radical Health Rebel podcast, you're joining the fight for uncensored truth, education and inspiration. It's easy to sign up Just head to the show notes, click support the show and follow their instructions. Prefer watching your podcasts? You can also subscribe on Substack by searching Radical Health Rebel. There. You'll also receive weekly articles and more. All for the same low price. Let's rebel against censorship and the lies of mainstream media. Together, we can build a healthier, fairer and freer world. Thanks for your support and let's keep rebelling.
Speaker 1:Well, if by unconventional you mean something that's not done by the masses, yeah, there are many, because unfortunately we live in a society where, um I like to describe it as we tend to normalize this function. We tend to normalize what's not natural and, um, I think the first thing that comes to me is like just go back to the sun. And going back to the sun is like, um, for example, when we are exposed to light after sunset, well, it keeps our body in like day mode, if you want, activity mode, and it prevents repair. So, just that, like, for most people, as far as I can tell, it's like no big deal, but when you understand the circadian biology, it's like, oh, actually you are slowing down every one of your repair processes, like literally hindering them by by simply being exposed to blue light. Um, so that's probably a big one. Um, obviously, fearing the sun, generally speaking, not just like being exposed to artificial light, but finger sun, and especially feeling the sun on the skin is big because, like, here's what I explain to people like we tend to stay to say that, yeah, you should avoid the sun, especially when it's like midday, basically, but when you understand that, to make vitamin d, which most people equate sun with vitamin d. That's, that's a good start, but what I what I usually say is like yeah, vitamin d is maybe like five percent of the benefits of the sun, but we have to understand that in order to make vitamin D in the skin which, by the way, vitamin D is made from a derivative of cholesterol, so, in other words, sunlight converts a derivative of cholesterol into vitamin D, which is called a vitamin, but it's more like a hormone In order to make vitamin D, we need sunlight that's strong. If it's not strong, it's not working.
Speaker 1:So there are two criteria to make vitamin D. One is that there is UVB light, so not UVA. Uvb, that's a subtype of UV light which is only here when the sun is about 30 degrees above horizon, so meaning pretty high in the sky already, which is why, by the way, we don't have vitamin D in the winter, because the sun is too low in the sky. And the second criteria is having a UV index of three or more. So, in other words, if we fear intense sunlight, we cannot have vitamin D, we cannot make vitamin D. And vitamin d has many, many roles, including for immunity, for inflammation regulation, and it plays into gut health. Um, we also know that, just for another example, uv light by itself, when it's um like touching the skin, especially the abdomen, it will help help regulate, like the microbiome, like just light can regulate the microbiome and promote beneficial species. So by being afraid of the sun, we are basically leaving some ammunition on the table, so to say, in terms of our healing potential.
Speaker 1:So to go back to your question, what are unconventional things that I would tend to recommend to promote gut healing? It would be embracing the sun intelligently and having a more mindful approach of artificial light. Because to me, if we look at how most people do things, we tend to protect ourselves of the only source of light that's natural. How most people do things, we tend to protect ourselves of the only source of light that's natural the sun and we tend to like not really take precautions against artificial sources. And that's really stems from a profound misunderstanding of how and again, like I say that with compassion because I did not know any better either before but it stems from a big misunderstanding of what we call photobiology, or how light affects biology. So that's a big one.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I mean, I guess what's unconventional nowadays? Just like drinking enough water between meals, but not during meals. Right, because if you drink water during a meal, it will dilute stomach acid and make your job harder. So just like sitting down and you know chewing, so you don't need to drink water and taking your time to eat. I know it's like surprise, surprise, but it's like that works. So these are the things that come to mind first.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah, the first thing you mentioned was, um, you know, not having artificial light after sundown. And you know, I think most people, if they came to visit me in the evening, would think I'm a bit weird because I don't have any artificial. Well, I say, I say I don't have any artificial light. That's not technically true, but I have, like himalayan salt lamps, yeah, which is which is like a form of red light, and I'm still wearing my blue light blocking glasses. Um, you know, I think most people if you visit their home in the evening time, all the lights are on and you can see everything. You know, sometimes if I've got my blue light blocking glasses on, I might even walk into something right in my home. Yeah, right, because I do. They do. Obviously they're blocking the light and there's little light anyway. Um, but what? What for me is quite interesting with regards to sunlight as well, and again, I think I've mentioned this before on the podcast, so most people know.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was young, I had quite severe acne, but I was also a cricketer, so in my teenage years and early twenties I played cricket and I was a bowler and quite often my team would bat first, so I would be down the order in the batting. So I used to literally take my top off, be in a pair of shorts and I would go and lay either somewhere you know if we had a balcony, in the changing room, or by the side of the pitch, and I would literally be sunbathing for hours. And I would do that every saturday, every sunday, and my skin was the best it would ever be was during the summer months, when I was playing cricket and there was lots of sunshine, and I've always been a bit of a sun worshiper. Now again, we're told that if you spend too much time in the sun, it's going to make you look old, it's going to ruin your skin, you're going to get wrinkles.
Speaker 1:Well, you know if anyone happy to clarify that. But yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:You know, again, I only have to look in the mirror and think well, if that was true, I would look a lot older than I look, right? I mean, just the other week someone thought I was 20 years younger than I actually am, right? So if, if someone, they were carrying a white stick and they had a Labrador, but but we'll brush over that, they were carrying a white stick and they had a Labrador, but we'll brush over that. But the point I'm making is that there must be more to it than that, right? And again, I don't use toxic sun creams or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I think the last time I even used organic sun cream was probably about eight years ago, I think. And now I play tennis. So again, I'm out in the sun at the weekends for, you know, could be anywhere from two to eight hours again. So if the sun was so bad, why am I seemingly only getting benefit from it? And I want to come back to the word you said intelligent use of the sun, right? So when I hear people saying things like you know you shouldn't go in the sun it's a bit like saying you shouldn't exercise I.
Speaker 1:I have a great analogy for that I would let you continue, but it's the analogy I use is like let's start with the assumption that there are car accidents happening, like we all know that, and so saying to avoid the sun would be like saying, well, please, everybody, stop driving, so we stop having car accidents. Right, it's like doesn't make any sense because it will paralyze the entire country, and it's like it doesn't solve the issue.
Speaker 2:Once again, yeah, yes, again, using the exercise analogy, let's just take building muscle as an analogy. You go to the gym and you lift weights, let's just say to failure, and then over the next 24, 48, 72 hours, those muscles heal and next time you go to the gym you're stronger. Simple analogy. Yeah, but if you over-exercise, like if you're doing four hours a day, five days a week or even seven days a week, well, the muscles are going to atrophy, they're not going to grow, they're going to get smaller, right, because it's too much stress. You're probably going to end up with joint pain, joint injuries, you might end up with torn muscles, you might end up with torn ligaments or tendons. And, of course, if you spend too long in the sun, right, then yeah, of course that's going to be a problem, just like spending too much time in the gym lifting weights is going to be a problem.
Speaker 2:Now, again, because of, because of what's being sprayed in the sky. I've not really seen much sun at all since last summer, right, and it shows my skin color. This is as pale as I go. So, okay, it's nice and sunny today, but it's, you know, as we record this, it's the beginning of march. I probably, I could probably spend all day out in the sun. I probably wouldn't get burnt because of the time of year. But if I'm still this color in a month's time and I start playing tennis and you know the sun's really bright I'll probably get burnt if I play for two hours, right? So what would be the sensible thing to do? Play for half an hour or an hour, maybe, or or maybe, maybe, you know, make sure I've got a hat on, or make maybe I'll wear some organic sun cream or maybe I'll, you know, maybe use I don't know beef tallow or something Right?
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's like being basically common sense, being sensible.
Speaker 1:And the only thing I will add because this is obviously an excellent analogy that I also use to to explain to people how to basically acclimate the sun, and one of the mistakes we make as humans, generally speaking, is we tend to go out when it's warm only, and usually when it's warm there is a lot of UV light, ultraviolet light.
Speaker 1:The only thing I will add, just so people can really understand the importance of it, is that when we are exposed to artificial light, even so, let's say we are indoors and exposed to a screen or a light bulb, so blue light is a proxy or what we call a surrogate to UV light. Why? Because in nature there is no such thing as a high level, a high amount of light without a fairly high amount of UV light. Therefore, even if we are indoors but we are exposed to artificial blue light, the brain believes that we are still exposed to uv light. Therefore, it does not kick start the repair processes right, and so the way I really simplify it it's really simplified, it's overly simplified, but it makes a point it's that the more I'm exposed to artificial light, especially after sunset, the less I can tolerate the sun interesting, interesting yeah um, we've spoken a little bit about diet already, and another, I guess fashionable.
Speaker 2:No, that's probably not the right word. Another thing that's discussed a lot right trendy is is fasting. Yeah, what's your view generally on fasting for gut health and and for overall health?
Speaker 1:yeah, so. So with these things, this can be quite delicate, because if we hear about the proponents of fasting or if we look at the research, we will find many biological markers that are improved. We'll see potentially benefits. But we need to ask ourselves the questions, as a ways, which is, is this tool, fasting, appropriate for this person? And what we have to understand about fasting is like, again, just like exercise it has benefits, but it's nonetheless a stressor.
Speaker 1:So, it's a hormetic stressor, meaning that if we step back and we look at what is the body trying to do, really like the number one goal of any living organism, of any body, any body, in two words, is to survive. Right, survival is the primary goal and a big part of survival is to be fed. Primary goal and a big part of survival is to be fed. So the reason I'm saying this is that the moment we remove food intake, it stresses the body out. Now again, this stress can potentially be beneficial. This is why we see all these studies revealing the benefits of fasting. But clinically, in practice, for most people I have found that fasting is not the stress people need right now, for the most part, meaning that, as I said in the beginning, many people are slightly overfed, meaning they eat a bit too much, but they are undernourished, meaning they have, don't have enough nutrients to run their body, their physiology, optimally. And so when you compound nutritional deficiencies and probably an already stressful lifestyle with fasting, which literally amplifies nutritional deficiencies because you are not eating anything and that's also seen as a stressor for the body, usually it will not go well. Now the where it can be a little bit a slippery slope is that some people say they feel better when they fast. Now, there might be several reasons for that and this is where interpretation is important Because again, if you, like me back in the days, feel heavy or bloated after a meal, whatever you eat, then obviously if you don't eat, you don't feel bloated, so like, oh, my symptoms are gone, so I feel better.
Speaker 1:That's one reason why we may assume that fasting is a solution. Another thing is that when we fast, because we don't have an intake of glucose and usually we run through our stored glucose, stored glycogen, pretty fast from the liver and muscles Pretty quickly the body will secrete cortisol to like mobilize all these, this energy basically too, so that we can still function. And the cortisol might feel like I'm alert, my mind is clear and things like that, and we can equate that with oh, I feel better. But really, when we do these things too much, we again sweep the problem under the rug and keep doing something that's basically not solving the root cause. Like, if we have digestive issues, it is not a fasting deficiency, it's usually something deeper.
Speaker 1:And the last thing I will mention specifically about intermittent fasting, which is usually done by not eating for 12, 14, 16 hours, like the 16 hour fasting window with eight hour feeding window is the most popular. Usually, the way it is done is by skipping breakfast and from a circadian standpoint this is the stupidest thing to do, like we would need to actually skip dinner, not breakfast. So, yeah, that's kind of my view on fasting. It is a tool, not a tool. I recommend to most people, especially women that are not menopausal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, what I would say I found. You'd probably say I intermittent fast now, but when I first started to do that, I actually did feel worse and what I feel is like my own experience, my own personal experience is that it takes a long time to be able to do that. And what? What you just explained really explains it. I guess, like you know, if you're taking away food, your body will go into automatic stress mode because it's saying, well, hang on a minute, I'm starving here, you know, because I normally eat at this time.
Speaker 2:So I remember I just started automatic stress mode because it was saying, well, hang on a minute, I'm starving here, you know, because I normally eat at this time. So I remember I just started skipping breakfast on a sunday and I actually noticed I started to get bloated and and my normal bowel movement on a sunday stopped happening. So I stopped doing it. I thought, well, that's not working for me. So I just went back to normal and my bowel movements went back to normal and I was not, you know, there was no bloating. But slowly, over time, I've got to a point now where I can eat two meals a day and that's become my norm.
Speaker 1:But I think you know, as you, I think, as you were alluding to again, it's almost like you've got to have a baseline level of health before you try to do that.
Speaker 2:You're more like the outlier. Yeah and also yeah, but I'm I'm talking, you know it's probably I've got to. Probably took me from the time I started to now, it's probably like eight years yeah, right it's not it's not like also an outlier level of patience. Yeah, for sure. Just moving on, how important do you think detoxification is to optimizing gut health?
Speaker 1:Pretty important, yeah. So I just think it's important to be clear on detoxification. I just think it's important to be clear on detoxification, meaning that obviously we don't want to keep waste products in the body, like the natural waste products from cellular respiration and, obviously, digestion. So that's number one. That's pretty obvious. And, as I said in the beginning, because we unfortunately live in a world that's quite toxic, we don't want to keep these toxins either inside the body. So any of these toxins could cause issues with the body and with digestion. What I have found is that so depending obviously, depending on the toxin, but it can increase the stress on the nervous system and this will directly hamper digestion. Obviously, if we don't eliminate properly through the colon, as you said in the beginning, like earlier, we will end up with small intestine bacterial overgrowth, so this will lead to digestive issues.
Speaker 1:So, for all these reasons, we want to make sure that the body I like to use the word drain more than detox we want to make sure that the body is able to drain toxins effectively and for that, again, there are many, many protocols out there. There. It's quite a trendy topic and it's very often. Obviously there are professionals that are much more qualified than me, but the masses don't understand that things have to be done in order and that you can take a supplement for improving whatever liver function. It's actually making you worse because you haven't done things in order. But overall, yes, like we want to make sure that the body is able to drain effectively so that it can just keep functioning properly, whether it's digestive or otherwise yeah, I mean, I do take I wouldn't say all clients, but often clients through whole series of detox protocols.
Speaker 2:Um, from you know, colon cleanses, liver gallbladder flushes, uh, skin cleanses and again, probably, these probably aren't what most people think they are um, coffee enemas can be really good, um, and and the use of binders, which, again, I've recently done a, done an episode on as well, um, you know they're, for me they're all really important factors and, again, keep talking about it today. But again, you know the things that are being sprayed in the sky.
Speaker 1:You know it's it's pretty impossible to avoid heavy metals now yeah which which is why, you know again, I'm a big proponent of using binders, because yeah, correct, yeah, that's where the body, this is where we need a kind of artificial solution for artificial problem, right, because the body never evolved for this amount of heavy metal toxicity and so obviously this is where binders can be helpful. But again and I know you know that I'm saying this for the audience but you can take all the binders you want, but if your nervous system or, like, if you're stressed out and you don't have proper bowel movements, it will stay in your feces, so it will stay in your body. Uh, so yes, like again, it's as always. It's also the theme of this episode is like strategic, like being intelligent with how we use and the way you started listing your protocols. You started with like a colon cleanse. It's like exactly, we should start with the colon because it's kind of the bottleneck of the drainage pathways.
Speaker 1:So, if so, the example I gave is let's say, I take artichoke extract to support the liver in bile secretion and da-da-da. So, okay, the liver works better, let's assume. But if I'm still constipated, well, it will stay in my body and eventually it will be reabsorbed. So it's not helpful. I will give another example that will probably speak to people if I do a lymphatic drainage, whether it's a specific dry brushing protocol or a specific massage, but it's my liver that's still backed up. Well, I would just overwhelm the liver even more because it's not able to receive all of the lymph toxins, right um. And the third example I like to give is like okay, let's, let's say I do a colon cleanse, but I stop there. It's actually my liver that's backed up and I'm not making any progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, it's, it's certainly again. You know again, as we know, there's a link between gut health and skin health, and for sure.
Speaker 1:You know I talk a lot about it actually, because the way I try to uh, I'll say to make a point with people, uh, is I talk a lot about the implications for skin beauty and a flat stomach, right? So anything that creates inflammation in the gut will compromise the flat stomach look, and anything that causes inflammation in the gut or burdens the drainage pathways can end up showing up on the skin, as you really well know from your work on acne. And so, yeah, obviously, like the, the skin is a a secondary drainage pathway, not necessarily the body's favorite unless we sweat, but this is why things can show up on the skin when the issue is really happening inside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean what I found working with people with skin issues not just acne but eczema and even psoriasis is that when you start doing these detox protocols, the skin gets better. And again, another thing that I found if I would again I'm going back a long time now, like early 2000s if I felt like I could feel a breakout coming on, I could literally just do a coffee enema and it would just disappear. So it wouldn't even, it wouldn't even develop fully, it would just, it would just go away. And you know for those maybe aren't aren't aware when you do a coffee enema, what it does? It stimulates, it's more the liver, but it's actually stimulating. Yes, it stimulates the colon as well, but it's, it's getting all the, all the bile flowing through, um, from, from the liver and then obviously through, uh, the colon as well, which, which to me, just said you know there's a definite connection between toxins, gut health and the skin yeah, and it's important to remind the listener.
Speaker 1:Then, bile, it has multiple purposes. Uh, one of the things that bile does, which, like, if we go back to the anatomy, so the liver secretes bile and then for the digestive purposes, the bile is stored in the gallbladder to be released when um kind of chime, so the kind of broth from the stomach enters the small intestine. So one of the things that bile does is it makes the things coming out of the stomach less acidic, otherwise it would burn inside the intestines. But it also emulsifies fats, so it improves fat absorption. Basically it allows the pancreatic enzyme lipase to do its magic. But also, what bile does in this is why it's relevant to what you just said, lee um is that it helped, like bile contains the toxins that are filtered from the liver to be, uh, eliminated by the colon. So this is, while improving bile by a flow not only can help with um, fat soluble vitamin deficiencies, but also with detox and elimination.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. I've got one more question for you. It's just a small one. Okay, just a small one. As many people will be aware, I've spoken to many guests on this show about emotions and how they can affect the gut and overall health. What's your view on emotions affecting gut health?
Speaker 1:um, yes, that's the short answer. Um, now, obviously like, for example, if we are to go on the first date or speak in front of an audience and we are not comfortable with that, or whatever, we tend to have the sweaty palms that we are familiar with, we tend to have the heart racing and we can have many people experience diarrhea. The reason I'm bringing this example up is that we have pretty much all experienced digestion-related symptoms associated with emotions. Now, the issue is not just the passing anxiety before a date or whatever. The issue comes when the emotions are not felt and therefore repressed. Emotions are not felt and therefore repressed, and it ties back to anxiety and mental health generally speaking.
Speaker 1:But, for example, chinese medicine illustrates really well how some emotions are affecting different organs and, for example, the colon, which we have spoken about multiple times. The colon can be affected by the difficulty of letting go, by mental rigidity which hello, that's me could be, by difficulty digesting or processing past experiences or past relationships. So, obviously, emotions play a role and they can very much affect the state of the nervous system. One of the reasons why people are stressed out most of the time is really because they are not able to sit with the emotions being generated by the present moment, moment. Like, for example, let's say that some people get stressed out because they are stuck in traffic. The reason they are stressed out is because they are not able to feel the emotion that's underneath it. And what's the emotion underneath it? It's like, well, they already assume that if I'm late, I would get, maybe, like, someone will make a comment about it at work and I will potentially compromise my employment and lose my job, and da, da, da, da. So, basically, the emotions that underneath the stress, the stressful situation, is fear. And because we've never, we've never been taught how to deal with emotions, uh, we avoid them and this creates this anxiety, this mental agitation, this stressful state.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, basically all of that, to say, it does affect the gut, whether energetically we could call it, as Chinese medicine shows, when it's trapped in the body, same like anger, frustration, it's more like the liver or bladder, impatience, it's called bladder, so it might impair our ability to digest fats or detoxify.
Speaker 1:Or, more like through the nervous system, which is that our inability to deal with our emotions leads to a heightened state of psychological stress which will impair digestion. So, for all these reasons, yeah, like, um, emotions need to be addressed for gut issues. But the way I go about it is quite in a methodical way, which is that I like to cover the basics first that you have mentioned in the beginning, like the six foundational principles, even though it includes the mind but like let's make sure that you chew your food, that you drink enough water, that you at least have the nutrients in your plate to at least give a chance to your body to have what it needs, and just cover the basics and, depending on how the symptoms evolve, if you're feeling 99 better, cool, we maybe don't need to do like a thorough investigation on your emotional state. But if it's like 30 better, and you're still whatever constipated, then okay, let's move on to the next level of investigation, which could be emotional yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, and you know I find with any aspects of health.
Speaker 2:So I I kind of work, I look at it as four different areas. So one area is movement, whether that's, you know, corrective exercise, whether that's strength and conditioning, whether that's you know what we call working exercise, like exercises, yeah. Another aspect is nutrition, lifestyle, functional medicine. The third aspect is manual therapy, sports massage, and many people know I use active release techniques as well. Then the fourth aspect is motions.
Speaker 2:So I see that for me they're the four areas that I work on with people and you know, emotions is a whole section on its own for sure you know, is absolutely crucial, and and it's rarely I come across someone where emotions isn't part of the root cause of the problem oh, for sure, but yeah, it's kind of unrealistic, like the example I gave was kind of fictitious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really um and um. The way I like to approach it is I always start with some kind of education about what emotions are and how to actually like feel them, at least in the moment, and then, yeah, like maybe refer out or give resources to uh like look into the stock emotions in the body. But yeah, for sure, like it's. Yeah, that's part of the protocol.
Speaker 2:I kind of follow a similar let's call it sequence to you as well. Let's get those six foundations in place and if they get the job done, we don't even need to go there necessarily.
Speaker 1:There might be the odd client where it's just so obvious that you know, I'll say from day one we really need to work on this at the same time, yeah yeah, I've seen people that are like so rushed all the time they are like they can't sit. Still, they are always freaking out for nothing. It's like okay, I think we actually need to start with the like, what's the emotion? You need to feel something because, like, otherwise they won't even be able to like if, even if you gave them the foundational program, that would think that freak them out even more. It's like, okay, like in this, in this case, like, let's start with the, the obvious emotion that's going on here yeah, absolutely so, robin.
Speaker 2:This has been a really really great chat, but what's next for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically, I'm growing my practice in the south of France. So, for people who haven't picked up, I have a French accent. I'm trying to hide it but conceal it. So, yeah, slowly growing my practice doing more and more public speaking maybe soon in English as well, uh, so I can post it for my english audience. Um and uh, like in the process of creating more and more programs that I can share with people and, as I briefly mentioned, I'm focusing a lot on, like, flattening the stomach and, uh, improving skin health, because it's what matters to many people, and but doing so in a way that actually honors health and puts health first and actually the aesthetics come after that and not like they are not at odds, basically, so, currently working on that, I have a growing YouTube channel as well, so it's mostly in French, but yeah, that's basically what I'm focusing on nowadays, and maybe some retreats coming up as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, awesome, and where can people find you online?
Speaker 1:So I guess the best place would be Instagram. So I guess you will put it in the show notes, but it's at Robinmalmason. So first name, dot, last name it's in French, but even if you send me a text in English, I will read it, understand it and probably respond in English if I'm kind. So yeah, that's the best place to find me.
Speaker 2:Awesome, great stuff. So, robin, merci beaucoup for coming on the show. Merci à toi. Thank you, lee, for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Merci à toi. Thank you, Lee.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Likewise.
Speaker 2:So that's all from Robin and me for this week, but don't forget to join me same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel podcast. Thanks for tuning in, remember to give the show a rating and a review, and I'll see you next time.
