Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
150 - Rethinking Gut Health: H. Pylori, Histamine & the Fall of Germ Theory with Dilly Kular
In this episode of The Radical Health Rebel Podcast, I sit down with researcher Dilly Kular to unpack the complex interplay between H. pylori, histamine intolerance, and acid reflux. We explore why these conditions are often misunderstood, how they’re interrelated, and what steps can be taken to address the root causes rather than just manage symptoms. If you or someone you know struggles with digestive issues, this is a must-listen.
We discussed:
0:00
Introduction to H Pylori, Histamine and Reflux
4:35
Dilli's Personal Journey with Histamine Intolerance
10:53
Understanding Histamine and Its Role
21:34
The Truth About Antihistamines
34:17
H Pylori: Friend or Foe?
44:12
How H Pylori Protects Itself
54:36
The Growing Resistance to Antibiotic Treatments
1:07:23
Globalization and Food: Impact on Bacterial Growth
1:17:14
Triple and Quadruple Therapy Explained
1:17:15
Natural Approaches to H Pylori Management
1:23:35
Terrain Theory vs Germ Theory
You can find Dilly @:
https://www.youtube.com/@CanIBeCandidShow/
https://www.nouveauhealthcare.com/
https://www.instagram.com/nouveau_healthcare/
Dilly's H. pylori protocol:
https://nouveauhealthcare.com/products/h-pylori-health-pack
Science Papers Referenced:
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6502203/
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2661189
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4381768
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9667403/
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39023173/
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh's website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Substack - https://substack.com/@radicalhealthrebel
YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
Rumble Channel - https://rumble.com/user/RadicalHealthRebel
Leigh's courses:
StickAbility - https://stickabilitycourse.com/
Mastering Client Transformation - https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/mastering-client-transformation/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
It's also about looking at the person's symptoms. Is the person showing symptoms of H pylori? Are they having really bad reflux? Are they getting really bad bloating in the stomach after eating? Are they feeling nauseous when they don't eat but feel nauseous when they do eat? It's about looking at the symptoms rather than just treating it because you test positive for it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. I'm your host, lee Brandom. This work started for me several decades ago when I started to see the impact I could make on people, helping them to identify the root cause of their health problems that no doctor could figure out, including serious back, knee, shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed. And it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show. In this episode of the Radical Health Rebel podcast, I sit down with researcher Dilli Kula to unpack the complex interplay between H pylori, histamine intolerance and acid reflux. We explore why these conditions are often misunderstood, how they're interrelated and what steps can be taken to address the root causes rather than just managing the symptoms. If you or someone you know struggles with digestive issues, then this is a must. Listen, dilli Kula. Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me, Lee. I really appreciate the invitation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great to have you on and to kick things off. Could you share a little bit about your academic and professional background and what led you to get involved with gastrointestinal health?
Speaker 1:So my background originally was in well, let's just say I started in business I don't have a background in, like, I'm not a practitioner, I'm not a functional medicine, didn't become a medical doctor or anything like that. I just kind of fell into the natural health industry through my own symptoms. I started getting really bad urticaria and my urticaria was so severe that, like, I was just on more plant histamines and one day I kind of came, I got introduced to a product called Toxoprevent. And when I kind of found the product I met one of the main doctors who's now passed away, sadly a good friend of mine called Dr Lars van Olschishek, albheim. And lars basically said to me delhi, take this product, your histamine symptoms will be gone. He goes, you will never have the problem again. And I was just like you know you're lucky I was a young boy then I would school. I wasn't. I'd call myself a very young boy, and when he told me that I was just so confused I was like what the hell are you talking about? And then I read into the product and I started taking it. Six months later I was completely urticaria free, 10 years now. 10 years well, over a decade now on I've had no urticaria symptoms. I've never had any histamine reaction. I eat and drink what I want.
Speaker 1:Um, I stopped getting pollen allergies, which is what I kind of got into, and then from this I started learning more about histamine and histamine just turned into this like it. I kind of walked into this door and I was given all this information and I kept reading it and I was like everyone's wrong. We're not I wouldn't say wrong, they were. They were making judgments on not the full information and they were cherry picking information. And that's where I kind of came to the histamine. And then that started linking into things like h pylori. And when I discovered about h pylori and the not the actual bacteria, but when I started looking at what it does and how it functions, it was these eureka moments. I was like I'm onto something here and next. You know I've become. I've spent a lot of time just researching in-depthly into these gastro conditions that are linked with these toxins.
Speaker 2:Basically, yeah, interesting, just for the audience. Can you um describe what her tachycardia is?
Speaker 1:so urticaria is what I would call an immune dysregulation. It's a histamine response where you get these spots and itchy red balls on the skin. Some people can get the inflammation in the skin like all around their body, but the only way to describe it is like that symptom, it's you want to tear your skin off. It's like your entire skin is inflamed or like little ants are running around on your skin and you can just get it in an instant. It could be from being outside in the cold, it could be from heat, it could be you'd be really stressed. You could literally have a shower and wake up in the morning, or whatever it is, and your skin just burns and it's torture and you mentioned histamine.
Speaker 2:Can you explain what histamine is for the audience?
Speaker 1:how long have you got?
Speaker 2:I've got at least a couple of hours I tease a tease.
Speaker 1:So histamine is, histamine's a neurotransmitter. It's something the body releases. It's also commonly found in food and it's known as a neurotransmitter. And the reason why it's known as a neurotransmitter and the reason why it's known as a neurotransmitter is because when it attaches to a receptor, it's it triggers these receptors, which creates these different conditions. Histamine is mostly known because of the pollen season, so when you have seasonal allergies, pollen goes in. Your immune system responds to it. It triggers mast cells to release histamine and then histamine creates all these symptoms to let you know. It's like a way of telling your body there's something going on. And I call it the inflammatory mediator. It's the red flag. It's the one that carries a flag to let you know what's going on. And histamine's fascinating because we need it. We actually need it.
Speaker 2:It's not bad but too much is the problem. Yeah, so basically it's. I guess it's always telling you if there's too much, it's always telling you that there's something wrong with the body. It's, I mean, the immune system is a good thing, right, but if your, your immune system is being overstimulated, it's you something. Would that be correct?
Speaker 1:The immune system is the most important thing that we can ever. You know, it's not just important, it's everything. If your immune system's high and it's too high, that's a problem. If it's too low, that's a problem. It's about achieving that equilibrium of balance. But the problem is in today's society we're exposed to so much and our immune system goes through so much that trying to get that balance is very, very difficult. Well, people say it's difficult. I think it's easily achievable, but it requires. The biggest cost is time. Time is the biggest cost in that circumstance yeah, so just expanding on that.
Speaker 2:So histamine you mentioned that was related to uh. Zecaria you mentioned, like hay fever season, that's an issue. What are some of the other kind of common conditions that we see with an overstimulation if?
Speaker 1:you like, of histamine, lee. It's linked to so much. So, to kind of give you an idea, you've got four histamine receptors in the body. You've got the H1, h2, h3, and H4. And each receptor has its own thing that it controls. So the histamine 1 receptor, which is located in the skin. It lets us know that there's skin inflammation. It lets us know that the white blood cells to go repair.
Speaker 1:You have the histamine 2 receptor which regulates stomach acid. That's what keeps the gastrointestinal tract intact. It helps produce the acid when we're eating. It also lets us know that if there's something wrong in the body, like a bacteria infection, your mast cells will release that histamine to create inflammation, to stop that bacteria or that toxin from getting worse. And then you've got the histamine 3 receptor which controls the central nervous system. This actually controls our wake and sleep cycle. It also links with our H2 receptor and controls our appetite, how we, when we want to eat or don't want to eat. And then you have the histamine 4 receptor, which is part of the immune cells and that's actually linked with the conditions like rheumatoid arthritis.
Speaker 1:All of these different receptors are responsible for different aspects of the body and the way the body functions. But histamines linked to so many common conditions that we talk about things like leaky gut syndrome um, you've got, uh, so leaky gut syndrome, gut inflammation, um itchy skin spots, acne, psoriasis, eczema, um h pylori, oh god, the list just. It kind of just builds up and goes on. Rheumatoid arthritis they're now developing anti-histamines for that. It's just, it's one of those incredible, incredible neurotransmitters that's linked to so much and it is an incredibly not I wouldn't say it's misunderstood, but in some cases misinterpreted because, like I said, not too, not too much, isn't you know? Sorry, histamines good, but too much is the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so you know, I think, what most people tend to think. You know, if they've got, sorry, histamines are good, but too much is the problem, yeah, yeah. So I think what most people tend to think if they've got let's call it an overstimulation of histamine in the body, the go-to is well, that's okay, I'll just take antihistamines, right. That's kind of the mindset most people tend to have, because that's kind of how they've been conditioned to think. Can you discuss what antihistamines actually do, and are they actually curing anything in your opinion?
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Speaker 1:Oh sorry, I don't mean to laugh. Um, I laugh because it's such a funny, funny topic. Um, I still remember when I was, when I was prescribed antihistamine and I had a, I was really fortunate. My, my neighbor at the time was a, you know, as a gp. He was really really good bloke, really good bloke. And, um, he used to tell me about different antihistamines and I remember he's just like, oh dilly, like you know, this antihistamine doesn't work. You need to try this one because it's a bit more stronger. And you know now what, 12 years on, now I think about it and I'm like, oh, my god, this doctor really was. Just he was telling me things I really shouldn't have, shouldn't have realistically been doing, because I was messing with things that I shouldn't have.
Speaker 1:And the reason why I say this is this so an antihistamine blocks a histamine receptor. It literally turns the receptor off. So, as I mentioned before, you have those four histamine receptors and when it turns that receptor off, all it means is that when the histamine is flowing around the system and it tries to attach that receptor, because that antihistamine is blocking it, it's not being triggered. So, all of a sudden, you don't have the symptoms. But the issue is that antihistamine that you're taking, whether it's lorotidine, whether it's cetronex, hydrochloride, vermotidine, fexidine, f-exafenadine, petrolizant, whichever one it is, it's designed to turn off that specific receptor, unless you're going to like the first generation antihistamines, which turned off multiple, multiple receptors. But when you turn that specific receptor off, okay, you've got rid of symptom one, the symptom. That's really cool, like you know, in case of seasonal allergies you've gotten rid of that symptom. But when you've gotten rid of that symptom, great, it's no problem at all. But antihistamines turned off.
Speaker 1:Let's say, for example, that histamine one receptor. But all of a sudden the histamine doesn't just go bye-bye. Oh, you've turned the receptor off, I'm going to disappear. The histamine travels and it builds up, and if the body can't break it down quick enough which is why you have that that histamine has been overdrugged in the first place, it will attach to the h2 or the h3 or the H4. And then what happens is when the antihistamine wears off because the histamine hasn't been broken down, it will then reattach to the histamine 1 receptor and so your symptoms still are coming back.
Speaker 1:But then there's another problem. You see, that receptor, that trigger, that you've got what's triggered your allergies or triggered your allergic reaction or your immune system to release that histamine. Your immune system is still being bombarded with that, with what's causing it. So it could be pollen, it could be water, it could be a food, it could be stress. So the minute the antihistamine wears off, because that histamine still bucket, still flowing up and building up, your symptoms return with a vengeance. And that's the problem with antihistamines. All they're doing is they're not treating anything. And even the packages says that. The package says relieves symptoms and it emphasizes on the word relieves. It doesn't get rid of it yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2:It's the same story really, when I look at you know a lot of let's call it allopathic solutions. You know, if we take, you know, with histamine, obviously you get things like the redness and the itching, etc. But let's just use a different analogy pain right, which is obviously something that I talk about a lot as well. Again, what's what's the go-to for most people if they're in pain? Well, pain medication or maybe an anti-inflammatory right. But whether it's a pain signal or whether it's histamine stimulating itchiness, let's say both of those, whether it's pain or itchiness, the way that I like to look at it is it's your subconscious mind making your conscious mind aware that there's some kind of imbalance or something that's not right in the body. So if you then treat it by numbing the signal, like you said, you're not dealing with the root cause of the problem and again, as you said, that's just going to bubble away in the background and get worse and worse and worse if all you're doing is putting a band, a band-aid, over a broken leg, so to speak. Right, so you know it's something that I know, again, a lot of people out there that they are for want of a better phrase conditioned to think that way. Right, and there's, there's a lot, a lot of conditioning going on. And if people don't, if people think they're not conditioned, then you need to listen to my episodes with david charlambas and with joseph and christoph on that very subject.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's something that I I get very frustrated by the fact that you know, when people have a symptom, their first thought is well, how do I suppress the symptom? Not what's causing the symptom. Let me deal with the actual cause of the problem and, as you alluded to earlier, sometimes the issue is time. It takes more time to deal with the root cause, whereas just popping a pill, or could be getting an injection, will take your symptoms away. But you've not taken the problem away.
Speaker 2:And the analogy that I've used time and time and time again is if you know you're driving your car and the engine warning light comes up, what's it telling you to do? It's telling you to take your car to a mechanic to check the engine to find the problem. But if you took them to an allopathic mechanic, they're either going to put a piece of black tape over the light on your dashboard or they're going to cut the electric wire to the bulb so that the light won't come on anymore. They're not going to fix the engine. So I guess from what you're saying is the antihistamine is like the piece of black tape where you're covering the engine warning light, so you're pretending it's not there, you're brushing it under the carpet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, they're not just brushing it under the carpet. In some circumstances I always get. Well, I say the team always get, get the. We get the customers who have been in the arena for a while and some of the stories you hear them, they're taking an antihistamine, then they're prescribed another one or they're told to double their dosage. And recently I've started to see people with four times like. They're taking antihistamine four times daily and I'm literally taken I I have to sometimes, like when I put the calls down or I stop being people, I have to take a minute because I'm like this is bonkers, like if the, if this medication's not working the first time around, why the heck are you giving the person it four times in a day?
Speaker 1:And this is the issues like we've. You know, as you've talked about the idea that we've been trained into it, it's the terminology that they've used antihistamine and I keep saying to people I'm not anti-antihistamine because I do see where they're, I do see their benefit, because sometimes symptom relief is what we need just to get rid of, like to be able to control it. But the fact that we can go around and use that, it's like the, it's the chosen, chosen method is just bonkers and I always say this to my, say this to my um, like my colleague on on the on the show, I always say to her I'm like sometimes I just look at and I'm like how is this allopathic? Like how was this? How like is the natural industry called alternative? Because technically the natural industry called alternative? Because technically the natural industry is not alternative. It was the original industry, technically medic, the allopathic model is the alternative model, which is just. It's something I've always thought about. I'm like, the more and more I learn about it, I'm like a lot of it is just.
Speaker 2:It is, as you say, programming yeah, again, what was interesting when I did my training in functional medicine many years ago now, one of the things that we was taught to us yes, I mean, the key thing about functional medicine is finding the root cause of the problem, but also there is a time for what was described as intelligent allopathy right, symptom relief. So there is a place for that. I don't think either of us are suggesting that there isn't, but, yes, and again, you can understand. Perhaps someone wakes up one morning, got terrible hay fever as an example, their eyes are streaming, they can't even see where they're going, let alone drive their car to work. And they've got to get to work, maybe got an important meeting or interview or whatever. Okay, you can understand why someone would take an antihistamine in that situation. But long term, okay, what's causing the problem? You need to look at what's causing it rather than oh well, every time I get that I'll just take, I'll just pop a pill. Right, let's deal with it at the root cause level.
Speaker 1:Well, lee, you talk about the pollen allergy there. That analogy there, let me just add to this. You talked about how it's all driven. To give an example pollen allergies. We talk about the immune dysregulation, but did you did, and not many people know this but did you know that a lot of the reason why pollen allergies are on the rise is because of the way we plant trees, which is just, it's crazy, right?
Speaker 1:Basically, years and years ago, people in councils and governments and planning control teams, when they were building all these beautiful cities and towns, what they realized was you had, you have male and female trees, right, the male trees produced the pollen and the females produce the seeds. And what would happen? These flowers, when they're pollinating that pollen, needs to travel and attract that seed. That's a normal environment. Right, that's a homestay environment. But what happened was, when the autumn came around, if the tree wasn't pollinated, the seeds would fall down. And when the seeds would fall down and hit the floor, it created mess. So, all of the, as the world developed, they started realizing oh, actually, do you know what we need to start doing? We start planting female trees. We should plant more male trees, because the pollen, you can't see it. You can't see the pollen. So they started planting all these male trees, but the pollen you can't see it. You can't see the pollen. So they started planting all these male trees, but the pollen started increasing and then, as it started increasing, as all the female trees decreased, the pollen increases, increases, increases, increases. And then they started planting more. Now they're being told we need to plant more greenery and protect the green environment. Because they're protecting it, they're creating more male trees, so there's more pollen coming out.
Speaker 1:Everyone keeps saying, like you know, you I keep laughing. I get on my laptop. I get these like notifications going high pollen count today. Well, of course there's high pollen count because there's too many damn male trees. It's, it's bonkers, so it's. It shows you that like it's not even like our immune system, it's our body is being bombarded with that pollen and it just it blows my mind and just you know, imagine saying that to your local council, saying can you please plant more female trees? They're gonna say no, because it creates a mess and then we have to pay more for cleaners to come and clean it up. That's the reason why pollen allergies on the rise yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean within, within my own family. Like my dad has always suffered from hay fever. My aunt, so his sister, always suffered from hay fever, but I've never suffered from it. One of my sisters I don't think has ever had it and then one of my other sisters has had it and it's kind of like, well, we live in the same environment. What's different as to why we don't get it and then they do get it? And I'm not saying this is the answer answer.
Speaker 2:But I've had a couple of clients that have come to me, not because they got hay fever, for other issues, but obviously in their paperwork they've said they suffer from hay fever and obviously sometimes when they've come to see me, you know I can actually physically see that they've got hay fever. And on these two, two clients. So one of the things I sometimes do is run food sensitivity testing and when we've, when they've cut out the foods that they're, that they're sensitive to, their hay fever goes away. Now I've got I've got an idea as to why that might be. If you've got an idea as to why that might be so food is like one of those.
Speaker 1:Food has been like the big go-to for the histamine community for many, many, many years. Um, in in 2000 and in the 2006 there was a really lovely lady, um uh, yasmine. She did, uh, she did a lot about the low histamine diets and stuff and taking out the histamine foods and many people do see like a difference in the histamine when they remove those triggers. However, that is not the solution, because there was this focus more on the histamine in food being the problem. Now, the reason why it's been focused as the solution was because it's something that we can control, because we can't control the pollen. You know, unless you're cutting down trees, you can't control the pollen. But what we can control is what we put into our body. So we can because we can control that. People started talking about taking out those foods, but I bet you, lee, in all my time of doing this, I have not met someone who's gone on the low histamine diet and managed to reverse their symptoms. And the reason being is because when the immune system is overreactive, the immune system is producing antibodies or IgE against what it thinks is bad. It's what the body thinks, or what it assumes is bad because it's thinking the pollen is bad. Pollen isn't bad, but too much of it's a problem and the immune system thinks that too much pollen is bad. It can then think that the food is bad, isn't bad, but too much of it's a problem and the immune system thinks that too much pollen is bad. It can then think that the food is bad. It can think that the water is bad. It can think that the supplements that you eat is bad and it's because the immune system is overreactive.
Speaker 1:And this is where the issue lies, because you will get relief in the short term 100 you know, going that low diet, you would definitely get relief. Remove those trigger foods, you'll definitely get relief. But long term, until you reduce that histamine bucket, until you lower the histamine bucket, until you look at what caused that histamine response in the first instant. Is it h pylori? Is it low vitamin d? Is it lack of vitamins and minerals? Is it eating the wrong foods? Until we address that, you are never going to get a root cause solution. That's my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my thoughts were and again I mean these clients again probably going back 15 to 20 years. My view at the time was okay. So if you've got hay fever, it's an overstimulation of the immune system. If you're eating foods that you're sensitive to, that's stimulating the immune system. So by removing the foods that are overstimulating your immune system, you're just taking the load off of the immune system. That was purely what my thought was at the time, which is kind of similar to what you were saying. Really. I mean, I'm not sure we definitely do know the answer now, but probably probably not too far off the mark here, I think yeah, I don't, I don't, um, I don't disagree.
Speaker 1:I don't think we're too far off the mark. We're. We're learning a lot about the immune system now and a lot about histamine, but the issue is the solution. At the moment, still, the common, common focus is on looking at antihistamines and, like I'm we were, we were doing a recording yesterday and I made the joke. I said, like there's 236.9 billion reasons why someone needs to take an antihistamine, and the reason why I use that complete figure is because that's what the antihistamine market's worth. It's worth that much globally. Just think about, just think about that figure 236.9 billion. Wow, that's a big, that's a big market market, that of of antihistamines.
Speaker 2:That we're, you know, up against yeah, I never realized it was that big. I mean, I know a colleague of mine wrote a book called the 39 billion dollar reasons to lie about cholesterol, so I didn't really I didn't realize that anti-histamines was even bigger than the statin market, which, which is huge. Um, but yeah, we could go down a big old rabbit hole with that one. Um, just just moving on. So, just getting back, if you you like, to Helica, back to Polari or H Polari, can you explain more about what it is and where we tend to find it in the body? And also, does it always have negative consequences? Did you know that 92% of people fail to follow through on their New Year's resolutions? That's right. Year after year, most of us start strong and then lose momentum by February. Sound familiar, but what if this year could be different? What if you finally had the tools to make your goals stick?
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Speaker 1:It's the one bacteria that has it stood the testament of time and, like, they've actually isolated it from the, I think, the caveman that they found. I think it was like in ticus and where they found a caveman, they actually isolated a strain of h pylori from the stomach of this cave person and it's an incredible bacteria which, which is in the stomach and, depending on where you want the world, there are different strains of it. So they found a different dna of depending on which country you go to. So, like in europe, they call it hp europe, for example, and in um in, you know, in south africa, hpsa, for example.
Speaker 1:And this bacteria for the life of us, we still don't understand why it increases. We know that it can be passed on from person to person, but but what we don't understand is why does it all of a sudden just completely flourish and go crazy? I have my theories, I've read the research, but I'm still understanding it. But h pylori, as you said, before it comes, it's been known as like a negative, you know, negative bacteria. However, the issue is there are positivity sides to it. So when you look at like treating h pylori, though, we found like it was. We, though, we've, like, understood that it's you know it needs to be.
Speaker 1:Well, they were told it needs to be killed. When you actually look at when h pylori is killed, they actually understood that, basically, when you remove the bacteria, the leptin in the system completely decreased, and leptin is the hormone that our body releases, which actually helps us maintain normal weight on a long-term basis. And they actually saw and you know, the leptin receptors are there to work on the glp1 receptor and, as you know, glp1 is a big conversation now being talked about because of the new, new wonder drug, should we call it, and what they're finding now, more and more research, is they're saying that when h pylori is eradicated, it actually reduces the hormone, ghrelin, which is what actually controls our appetite and weight gained and which is also linked to when our, when we have problems with sleeping. When ghrelin disappears, we actually have those issues. So now we're starting to understand that maybe this bacteria does have a beneficial effect, but what we're trying to understand is why is it? Why is it bad? Why is it negative?
Speaker 2:what's, what's it doing that it's becoming, it's causing all these symptoms, and I have my theories so have a guess what my next question is go on share your let's let's let's hear your theories so with h pylori, you know we, we know that it can be passed on from person to person.
Speaker 1:It's not unheard of where a family, an entire family, the mom, the dad, uh, the child, um, you know the mom, both moms, both dads, whichever you want to call you over the family makeup model is could have be a carrier of bacteria. And we know it can be passed on person to person. And we also know that it forms like it's what we call a coccoid form. So even if you try to destroy it, it's able to lie in the stomach, stomach lining dormant for a long, long, long time. And it's fascinating because there's an element of genetics to it. They say it's genetics that play a role, that it could be your genetics. That the reason why you get it.
Speaker 1:I think it's more to do with an acid-base balance, I think it's more to do with an environment where the body's not unable to digest food, and I think it's more to do to do with an overuse of antibiotics. I personally think that h pylori it's one of the what it's known as an antimicrobial resistant bacteria and it's on the to the top 20 who list of bacteria that are going to become resistant to amr, and I personally believe that we've because of globalization, because of important foods from different countries, from different cities, from different areas, and because of the fact that we're now mass producing so much food and we're spraying so much anti-glottal foods, this bacteria is starting to flourish in different ways and it's starting to mutate its own genetics. That's just my theory, and the more I learn, I'm starting to see that that very much could be true yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, just to just to pick you up one thing you said, because I know it's just the way you said it. You said putting food on antibiotics, but you put antibiotics on food right.
Speaker 2:Just in case the audience are thinking well, how does that work? Yeah, you know what's really interesting. So again, I don't know how much of my story you know, but I had severe acne when I was young. I took antibiotics for 18 years, you know, but I had severe acne when I was young. I took antibiotics for 18 years and you know, the earliest tests I had done did show up h polari and they haven't done for a long time.
Speaker 2:Um, and again it just it almost backs up your theory that you know, as I've kind of got healthier, I guess there hasn't been a need for that h polari to to be there or to flourish anyway, you know. Or I've kind of got healthier, I guess there hasn't been a need for that h polar I to to be there or to flourish anyway, you know, or to be there in high quantities. So yeah, so that that that kind of backs up what you're saying and that that's um beginning to answer a question that I've got lined up for you a bit later anyway, but we'll we'll come back to. We'll come back to that. Um, how does H pylori protect itself and what are the common symptoms when someone has an overabundance of H pylori?
Speaker 1:Yeah, both really good questions. Do you mind if I just clear something up and go back a little bit, would you mind? I wanted to Sure. I know some people are going to probably listen to this and they'll be like what the hell does he mean by antibiotics in food? They're going to probably look at, listen to this and they were like what the hell does he mean by antibiotics in food? And you're probably gonna probably like what do you mean that? What's it got to do with the with the food, right?
Speaker 1:So the reason why I brought this, this comment up, was I actually met a professor, well, a chap who's going for his doctorate. His name is jay gassio. He's published research was published in I think it was march, so very up-to-date research, because you know we'll get killed if research is too far out of date. These days I've seen people get hung up for you know, oh, it's five years old. That must be a lie, but you know, still valid. I do believe Jay Gat is one of the most interesting people I've met. We've actually did a really good recording with him and actually looked at antibiotic residues in uk foods so not europe, not america, just in the united kingdom and he started looking at how much antibiotics from food if you break down his research in most foods there were in so most foods that he tested for. So he tested for um, I think it was 10 different antibiotics in nearly every single food. Of some food he found one of the nine antibiotics. In some cases three or four versions of the same, of different antibiotics, in particular mycin. They're the family that, the mycin bacterias, and they're the ones that come off like amoxicillin and penicillin and these, these antibiotics that they're using in in some cases.
Speaker 1:He actually found in his research that farmers, during the pre-pandemic levels and during the pandemic, were importing illegal antibiotics that weren't allowed in the food chain and actually spraying this on to animals.
Speaker 1:Because of that mass manufacturing and because they were spraying it onto the physical meats, it wasn't dying off quick enough and then, because it wasn't being cleaned up quick enough, he goes, it was being leached into the actual animal and then when they were slaughtering the animal, they then would spray a reduced form of the antibiotic.
Speaker 1:So you've got this antibiotics being put into the actual production of the animal and the growth part of it, then during the actual destroying of the animal and then putting into the actual physical end use product. And he was saying that every bit of that live chain there was meat in, there was antibiotics in that meat. And then he said and the problem was, it wasn't just the meat, it was the vegetables as well, because the runoff from the animals was entering the vegetables and so this overuse of antibiotics has started to train the bacteria to be resistant to it. And this is why this is why you know I talk about it because it's like it's become the, the animals and then us have become the party place for the bacteria to thrive yeah, again, that's.
Speaker 2:There's something that I have discussed a little bit with a film producer called stephen lawrence, so I did an episode called invisible extinction, which is the name of his film, and they talk about, you know how they use antibiotics with livestock, and one of the reasons they do that is because it makes the animals fat and sick, and so the fatter an animal is, the more money they make. They don't do body fat measurements on a cow before they sell it. It's just what does it weigh? You sell it by weight. Measurements on a cattle before they sell it, right, it's just what does it weigh? You sell it by weight.
Speaker 2:So they're injecting all these animals with antibiotics. Well, guess what? We're going to consume those antibiotics when we eat them, right? And the other thing, and you were saying, the runoff from the animals is affecting the plants, but then also that's when we go to the toilet as well. That's got to go somewhere, right, that's not just going to disappear, is it? It's going to be somewhere. And quite often, you know, we find things like antibiotics, um, birth control pills, recreational drugs, that they're all in the water supply, right, of some sort, you know, and that's just the good news.
Speaker 1:You know, I say to people, if water supplies, if water supplies were healthy, we wouldn't have water, water filters, brita, brita wouldn't be one of the most largest filtration companies in the world. If water I wasn't a problem, and stop telling me it's all about hard water. It's not hard water, that's, that's just. That's not even even part of it. How, what's his name? The guy that does all the the tv shows has brought his own water. Is it water to company or something? I've got his name now. They're bear grills. Even he's a water filtration system like coming out, and if it was a problem, I think governments would be shutting it down and saying this is this, is this is bullshit, but it's, they're not yeah, well, don't, don't speak too soon.
Speaker 2:I could. I could see uh governments clamping down on things that that tend to make us healthy, but that's another. That's another story. So h pylori it's in the stomach, so the question was how does it protect itself and what are some of the common symptoms?
Speaker 1:when people got high levels of so h pylori is known as something called the urease enzyme, excreting bacteria. This is where it basically releases this enzyme, which breaks down urea into carbon dioxide and into ammonia. And then what it does is h pylori triggers the release of histamine from the mast cells. When histamine increases, when histamine releases, it triggers a specific receptor in our stomach called the histamine 2 receptor, and that receptor triggers the release of stomach acid and it increases that stomach acid. And what that does is it allows that ammonia to go through a process called protonation and be converted into ammonium. And when it becomes ammonium, ammonium is an alkalizer. So if you look at the pH scale, it's more toward the alkaline area. And what H pylori does is it uses that as a protective shield and at the same time it's triggering the stomach lining to release more of that histamine. So it's increasing the acid as the acid goes up the stomach lining to release more of that histamine. So it's increasing the acid. As the acid goes up the stomach viscosity, the actual stomach acid becomes thinner and as the viscosity reduces, this allows the h pylori to use its little flagella to swim and as it swims along it will then attach itself to the stomach lining and that's the way it does. That is it.
Speaker 1:It uses um lipopolysaccharides, that lps is what it uses to attach itself to the tight junctions in the stomach. And once it's attached itself in the stomach, it then releases vac a and cag a. And what these two um endotoxins do is they are what trigger the stomach lining to break down. They actually cause cell death in the stomach lining. And as it starts to cause that cell death and as it starts to break down that stomach lining, it can then slowly start burrowing through the stomach lining. And so when that happens, the stomach or the body tries to defend itself.
Speaker 1:And, as I was saying at the start, there's mast cells which are which which line the entire gastrointestinal tract. Mast cells are located all around the body and the first line of defense is those mast cells and one of the primary source of defense. And what these mast cells do is they start to release histamine to create an inflammatory barrier. And because it's creating that inflammatory barrier, you have this constant buildup of histamine which is triggering other receptors, increasing stomach acid, causing gastrointestinal issues further down, triggering acid reflux. It's this constant cycle of these toxins being released and this is where there's realized a problem the ammonium and the histamine.
Speaker 2:They're the two things that we need to be need to be focusing on and do they cause like specific problems in their, in their own right as well?
Speaker 1:so. So histamine, as I'm saying, leads to so many different symptoms because it's attaching to different receptors. But ammonium in itself, though it's an alkalizing model in terms like it protects the h pylori, ammonium is very toxic to the body. It's actually a byproduct of protein breakdown from when people have excessive amounts of meat. So everyone and oh sorry, not excessive amounts of meat, excessive amounts of protein, so it's part of our heavy protein diet.
Speaker 1:Ammonium was a die off of it and the problem is ammonium in really high quantities. The only way to get rid of it is to convert it back into urea and then use the urine to pass out the system. But because if ammonium is really really high, it can lead to so many different symptoms, because it can actually poison the blood, shall we call it? And as it poisons the blood, it can lead to things like dizziness, feeling really tired, lethargic. You just feel really bloated, your body starts to become inflamed and it can actually lead to serious neurodegenerative diseases, which is what always worries me when people have really excessive protein diets yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I I do eat quite a lot of protein myself, but with no, no symptoms, so and that's been 25 years or so. Sorry, but I guess, yeah, maybe I've got all the hydrochloric acid and all the enzymes etc. To break that stuff down.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's one of those. It's, it's not. I think it only becomes a problem in certain circumstances. It's when the body is too toxic, as in like you're eating the wrong thing so you're in a really heavy deficit and you're eating like real processed foods and the meats that are, you know, different kinds. I think ammonium from high protein diets normally isn't a problem, but there are genetic predispositions that can trigger it, or if we're eating protein in such a way, in such an excessive amount, and when don't have enough of the right enzymes to break it down. I have seen with certain athletes where they do, um, eat very high protein diets and they start to get uric acid buildup in their joints. So their joints start to ache, and normally it's a very, very quick fix. We just need to adjust their ammonium levels and that can be very, very simple to do where do you stand on the link between h pluri and stomach cancer?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's definitely, definitely known as a carcinogen. So I do do completely understand, like you know, that it's, it's linked with it, but I also think that there's more to it than meets the eye, because there's certain antibiotics that are given to animals and given to humans, which are also banned in the united kingdom and still available in the eu, which are classed as class one carcinogens. In particular, there's one specific antibiotic, um. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of it, um, but it's an antibiotic that they've given. I'm sorry it's called um trimethoprim and that's. Is it trimethoprim? I think it is. Yeah, I think it's trimethoprim. It's a. It's a? Yeah, it's a certain antibiotic that's very, very dangerous and it's classed as a carcinogen. So you know, I understand the stomach cancer premise with h pylori because of digging in, but it's classed as a carcinogen. So you know, I understand the stomach cancer premise with H pylori because of it digging in, but it's an immune response.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, might come back to that question a bit later on. So, in terms of the number of H pylori cases, are you seeing like an increased number and, if so, why do you think that is Attention, all radical health rebels. Are you ready to uncover the truth? The authorities don't want you to know. We've just launched our Radical Health Rebel channel on Rumble. Here's the deal we're bringing you the first half of our subscriber-only episodes for free. That's right. Free access to the hard-hitting, eye-opening conversations that dig into the topics mainstream platforms won't touch, whether it's cutting-edge health insights, exposing hidden agendas or sharing tools to thrive in challenging times. This is your chance to stay informed without subscribing to the podcast. Tune in on Rumble to keep track of what's really going on in the world and join a growing community of truth seekers. Don't miss out. Search Radical Health Rebel on Rumble and start watching today, because knowledge is power and it's time to take yours back.
Speaker 1:Sorry, just give me a second. It's like it's a good question. I think the increase in cases of H pylori have been down to the fact that it's becoming antimicrobial resistant and I think the increase in use in PPIs is one of the main, is going to be one of the main root causes. Because h pylori thrives in a low. It can thrive in the lowest acid environment and even in high acidic environment if it goes to a coxoid form. But if people are using continuous use of ppis, it's able to flourish in that environment and I think because it's starting to change, because we're starting to have so much globalization and we're traveling to different countries, if we catch a strain, I don't know of h pylori africa, for example, or h pylori europe or h pylori middle east, wherever we're getting that bacteria from if we bring it back to our country because our genetics and body isn't built for it, that can lead to an increase in those problems.
Speaker 1:And the issue is is that our first line therapy now is moving away from triple therapy? It's moving towards quadruple therapy, which is use of more antibiotics. But the problem is, if you're imagine you're someone who travels a lot, you know. You know we're living in a world of globalization where people are traveling to different countries all the time. If you're traveling to all these countries constantly, that you could get eradicated, but you've trained the bacteria to fight that antibiotic, because you're literally training it. You know that's the whole point of the antibiotic, because you know I'm not the whole point of it, but it will train the bacteria to become resistant to it. And as the bacteria becomes resistant to it, you then are faced with the same problem and if you don't do any other changes to your lifestyle, the bacteria comes back and next thing, you know, it's thriving. And then you, you, you know you pass it on to people, you'll go to different places and if you don't wash your hands correctly, you could be on food, could be from anything.
Speaker 1:So I think h pylori is like on it's on the rise. You know I'm seeing it more and more, but I'm also seeing the fact that people are trying to treat something. That's not a problem either, because sometimes what can happen is people. Will. You know? I say it's down to symptoms. It's not just about doing a urea breath test. It's also about looking at the person's symptoms. Are the person, is the person showing symptoms of h pylori? Are they, you know? Are they having really bad reflux? Are they getting really bad bloating in the stomach after eating? Are they feeling nauseous when they don't eat, but feel nauseous when they do eat? It's about looking at the symptoms rather than just treating it because you test positive for it.
Speaker 2:So one of the things you mentioned there is obviously people are becoming more antibiotic resistant, but obviously that's a treatment, right. But if people are getting that, you know getting high hblri in the first place, have you got thoughts on why that is? Obviously the treatment is what comes next, right, but if there's more people being don't like to use the word diagnosed with hblri, any idea why that might be on the increase once again just globalization, I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think more people are being diagnosed with it because we've we've had like an increase in hygiene, like hygiene's become a big, big thing, but then we can go to other places where the hygiene isn't as isn't as good or someone's not done as good as of hygiene. And you've touched if you know you've touched something that wasn't clean properly or you've eaten something that wasn't, you know you've touched something that wasn't cleaned properly or you've eaten something that wasn't, you know was made with unwashed hands. Or you know children. You know I've got children and I've seen the way the kids play and stuff. They don't care about hygiene, they're not washing their hands constantly or in some cases they're over washing their hands and overusing certain anti.
Speaker 1:You know certain hand cleaners, for example, and all of these things are like having an impact on the microbiome. You know we've never looked at the. You know, looking at the hand sanitizers, there's never been a study to know the impact of hand sanitizers, hand sanitizers on food. We've never seen. There's no correlation. But how can you not say there's not a correlation when people are having we're having more and more antimicrobial resistance? It's, it's a cocktail, it's a cocktail and the cocktail mix or the cocktail shaker? Is you as the individual?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would imagine another factor is probably because people's lifestyles are getting worse as well. Right, their lifestyles are getting worse. They're probably under more stress. I think the last five years has been pretty stressful for most people as well, and you know it wouldn't surprise me. You know if, uh, you know reduction in healthy living and stress, you know that's that's got to be. You know part of the ingredients in the melting pot, so to speak yeah, 100, and, like, you just reminded me of something.
Speaker 1:Um, I remember when I was speaking to J-Gag, me and Tracy were speaking, had a long conversation with him and I remember talking to him before we did the recording and after as well, and he was just talking, one particular was like hamburgers and he was just telling me. He reminded me of my memory, of something, me of something. I think it's like 2011. I remember watching the news about like a farmer being convicted for using antibiotics in in it's like northern ireland somewhere. He was convicted for like, using too much antibiotics in on food or something, and he was like using you know black market antibiotics. And jay gack was saying that one of the most common foods where they found the highest antibiotics was, like, you know, processed meats and that that includes like burgers. Because when the different meats are coming together and it was interesting, the, the british government did um, there's this one called the uh population correction unit, the pcu, and what what we find is, you know meats that are kind of put together. So let's say, you've got a herd of cows, you're 50 cows and cow one. They're all named one to 50. So number one could be healthy, but number three could be really unhealthy and number three gets loads of antibiotics, and then number 10 gets loads of antibiotics and 15 gets antibiotics and all 20 gets antibiotics. It doesn't matter how, which how much antibiotics in there. What they would do is they would. They couldn't account for all of it, so all of them had antibiotics. They would then kill all of them. They packed them all together and you would know. And then what they would do is they make an average. They take an average of how much antibiotics, so you could have like five really sick and wild cows were given antibiotics from the day that they were born all the way to the day that they were slaughtered and you've got these ones being mixed into the environment.
Speaker 1:And this is the problem. There's no actual, real strong legislation around food. And the problem is now we. Our access to food is limited unless you're going to your local farm, and you know we. As you said, life is stressful, life is busy. We're trying to make things easier, but you know the growth of things like just eat, deliveroo doordash in america, like you've got all these massive things, you. But you know the growth of things like just eat delivery door dash in america, like you've got all these massive things. You don't know where a person's sourcing their food from, because they're trying to keep their cost low, so you don't know what's in that physical food and they're trying to make sure that they get the. You know they talk about quality, but they're trying to get the food for the cheapest price possible to maximize profits in order to turn a profit. And this is the issue. You've got these adding to that cocktail mix.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, since that reminds me of the pharmaceutical industry as well. They seem to have, they seem to have the same, the same. Uh, you know playbook, so to speak. So you mentioned, you mentioned your antibiotics. You've mentioned triple therapy and quadruple therapy as a potential treatment for h polari. Can you, can you explain what triple therapy, quadruple therapy, actually is and you kind of alluded to it, but again, just go over kind of how effective that can be as a treatment. So triple.
Speaker 1:Triple therapy is is like the, it's the, it was the holy grail. It was the holy grail for most. You know the model basically, and what triple therapy? It's a mixture of mixture, of proton pump inhibitor. So a ppi is what reduces, it basically stops the stomach from producing acid. So, because it stops producing acid, the premises that the h pylori will release that ammonium shield. And then what they do is they put in two different types of antibiotics, so either amoxicillin or chlamycin, or I think the third one is metronidazole. And what will happen is the gp or practitioner has to discuss whether you've had, you know, a mycin antibiotic before. If you've had that antibiotic before, the chances of you being resistant are much higher. So they'll give you metronidazole, for example, in exchange of it. So that's triple therapy, which the idea is release that ammonium shield antibiotic goes in, destroys the bacteria and voila you, you've walked out and you're um h-poly free. And then quadruple therapy is different. So quadruple therapy, the model is that you would take the PPI plus bismuth and then amoxicillin or tetracycline or levoflaxine or riboflifabutin or I think it's fuvosalidane, I think it's called. Sorry, my pronunciation could be off sometimes, but they, they use these different antibiotics depending on what they're going for.
Speaker 1:However, what's interesting is the the model. Now I've told you about the antibiotics that you're using, right, but what happens is, let's say, let's say, right, I'm, I'm average Joe. I've walked into my surgery and I've said, doc, I've got these symptoms, what should I do? Doc goes, you know, diagnoses you and says you've got H pylori, my friend, we're going to kill it with triple therapy. You go, okay, no problem at all. So the model goes like this Come in for triple therapy, you do that for seven days, you then come back and if you're still symptomatic, we then do triple therapy again.
Speaker 1:And then, but we switch the antibiotic around, so it's either chironithramycin or metronidazole, and then you do that. And let's say at each point there's points if it works, then you don't come back. But if it doesn't work on those two triple therapy treatments and you're, if you're still symptomatic, we then can do triple therapy again. So you do triple therapy three times, but on the third time what we do is we switch the antibiotic for a more stronger one, and then, if that triple therapy fails of all three times and you're still symptomatic, we then ignore the triple therapy and we go to quadruple therapy and in bismuth.
Speaker 1:And then what we do is we then play a game of of um rolling the dice and we use the different antibiotics. At each one of those points, those touch points, you haven't had a break, you've not rebuilt the microbiome, and at each one of those points you're playing with fire, because you're using every single different type of antibiotic, including the main one, which is amoxicillin, which is, you know, one of the, you know the, the daddies of antibiotics in all those processes, and that's what triple therapy does. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's crazy and do you know, kind of, how successful triple therapy is? Because I'm you know, I'm you know we were talking about dave honpez before we started recording and I remember his book that he wrote a long, long time ago was kind of suggesting that it was continually getting less and less positive results. What's, what's the kind of up-to-date view?
Speaker 1:so there was an ongoing clinical trial in the night kingdom, um. It was done between 2001 and 2018. I will send you the papers and you can link them in the description so people can read them themselves, because there was actually no routine surveillance done on h pylori and looking at antimicrobial resistance, and they published a trial in, I believe, 2023. And they said, of all the h-pylori isolates, around 28 of them were resistant to chrysolytin and about three percent were becoming resistant to metronidazole and amoxicillin. And they estimated estimated, by the way, so remember that word, because words matter right? They estimated about 59 000 people were antibiotic resistant due to h pylori and one of the biggest problems was a bacteria called campylobacter infection, which is one of the reasons why we become so resistant to antibiotics so it's not looking so good is it.
Speaker 1:My friend, it's going to be one of those lee like looking at h pylori. Now I've I've looked at the mastric consensus report the master of mastric flounces consensus reports where a group of doctors get together and they read all the latest research on h pylori and I follow. I've been following it for a long, long time and they've tried to bypass triple therapy and they're now recommending that everyone goes to quadruple therapy. So they just bypass triple therapy altogether, especially in countries which are what we would describe as first world so and they're saying that we want to basically bypass these. And the issue is, if quadruple therapy doesn't work, the long-term solution is a ppi daily and then a histamine 2 antagonist like vermotidine, and the person must stand up for the rest of their life like vermotidine and the person must stand up for the rest of their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, scary, I mean. Yeah, I mean, ppi is. You know there's. There's the old joke, isn't it? Um gary delaney, the comedian, said um, I thought ppi was what you got when you swam in the children's swimming pool that's a good joke.
Speaker 1:I like that one. I might steal that one yeah, we're not.
Speaker 2:We're not referring to that, right, it's the propon proton pump inhibitors, as you mentioned earlier. Um, but again, you know they'd link. You know ppis are linked with things like sebo, right, and again we could talk about all the potential side effects that ppis cause. What was the other drug you mentioned?
Speaker 1:The moxilins or, sorry, the antibiotics. Or you want to talk about the bismuth? Oh no, no. So the histamine 2 receptor antagonist. So it stops the histamine 2 receptor from producing stomach acid.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, you don't need stomach acid, do you? It's not very important in the body I love the psych, my friend. I love the sarcasm, yeah can I just yeah, I'll just add to this you know, yeah, gently touched on triple therapy, quadruple therapy.
Speaker 1:if you, when we google these antibiotics and you google them and they'll just say like they'll give you the, you know the gods of Google will give you the basic information loxacin, if you want to. Um, one of the first ones they use, that actually destroys the dna and the dna processes of the bacteria. But when you're reading it you think, oh, it's destroying the dna of that specific bacteria, h pylori. But you and I know, and all the listeners listening on this know, that an antibiotic will not just destroy that specific bacteria, it will destroy all those bacterias. And so if you're messing with, if you're messing and inhibiting that dna repair process using this antibiotic and you've got all of these, because we're not talking about just bad bacteria, we're talking about the commensal, the good bacteria, all those different things You're messing with every single part of that and that, for me, is what scares me, lee.
Speaker 1:There's things that make me take a deep breath. When I read these papers, I took a deep breath and I remember just sat and I walked into my colleague's room and I said can you believe they're giving this to people? And people are just willingly taking this, and please don't misconstrued what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you can't use these, but I'm saying the way that they're being used and the way that they're being overused is morally wrong. Morally wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, overused is morally wrong. Morally wrong, yeah, yeah, but again, you know, we also know that there's a lot of money to be made, a a from the medications themselves, but then from the medications that those medications cause. Right, so the medication causes another problem which you need to medicate. And you know people get on these pharmaceutical merry-go-rounds and they can be very difficult to get off once you go down that road, and I've seen many people close to me go on that merry-go-round and it's difficult to watch. So up until now, over the last well, how long have I been doing these kind of tests? 18 years. I've been doing functional testing. The only kind of test I've done so far is a stool test. What would be your recommendations for testing for H pylori?
Speaker 1:Symptoms. Always check for symptoms. If that person's got the main symptoms of H pylori, then it's wise. Then I would probably confirm it with a urea breath test which looks at the ammonium buildup in the stomach. That would be my kind of like go-to, because I always try and base it on symptoms. If the person's got the symptoms, chances are they have it, because you can have a strain of H pylori but it may have nothing to do with the fact of what's kind of actually going on. And then a lot of times I think more people are testing the actual um, endotoxins, the, the kage and the vake. If you're seeing high levels of them and you've got symptoms, then that's, that's. Yeah, you've got h pylori and we need to. We need to look at, look at um, not eradicating it, let's you know. We need to look at rebalancing the body, look at rebalancing the stomach acid and bringing that bacterial load down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which actually brings me on nicely to a question that I'm really intrigued to get your views on Are you familiar with doctors Andrew Kaufman, Tom Cowell, Mark and Sam Bailey and others? Are you familiar?
Speaker 1:with those guys. No, my friend, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Sorry go on.
Speaker 2:Fine, so I'm going to just hit you with it, right? So I've had Mark Bailey on my show, I've had Daniel Reuters on my show discussing this very topic and I'm just going to throw it at you and just get your views on it. So they are very much terrain theory and again I'm paraphrasing them. So, if they're listening, excuse me if I haven't got you quite right. But their belief is and I admit it makes a lot of sense to me is that bacteria don't cause disease, and they also have questioned the validity of being able to pass on a disease, ie contagion theory and what, what they, what their main view is is that when someone has a bacteria let's even call it an overgrowth it's because it is responding to the environment of the person. Right, what, what's, what's kind of like your, your view, yes, they.
Speaker 1:They've, uh, uh, I've come to a very similar conclusion to what they're saying. It really bothers me a little bit because I think, you know, probiotics are on the growth now Good bacteria, good, good bacterias but what we're not looking at is the impact on commensal bacteria. What's the impact on the general bacteria? Because, technically, h pylori is part of the commensal bacteria, but it becomes overgrown for. It becomes overgrown fora reason and what they're saying is not incorrect. It's actually very, very, very on point, to like what. I've started to learn a lot more and I'll have to listen to them more. Now that you've written, given those names, I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal those names, I'm gonna listen because, as I've said before at the start of this, I am a subscriber to your podcast and I will actually hunt those those down and listen to them more. But I think they're they are definitely on the right mark.
Speaker 1:You want to be very careful when you start messing with the gut bacteria because you know, I used to work with um, a really interesting company in america called sun genomics. They had a um, a bacteria test, a stool test called florae. It uses something called whole genome metagenomic sequencing and they could see they were using. You know the massive um gut gut study that was done by I think um timpress inspector did it. He was like one of the main people behind that massive whole microbiome study and they spent all that money and they realized that basically when they checked all these stool tests and actually put them through the whole genome sequencing, that what they thought they knew about the good bacteria they didn't actually know because I'll, depending on where you lead the person you know you're bringing whatever it was bacteria was completely different. And I remember talking to talking to sunny and just having chats with him he was the microbiologist behind it and listening to his understanding of whole genome sequencing and reading their clinical trials and things like ibs.
Speaker 1:It's phenomenal because he said when you start messing with gut bacteria and you're taking probiotics you have to keep adjusting the probiotics because the gut bacteria changes and because it changes it can change day by day. It can change depending on what you're eating, what you're drinking, whether you're stressed, whether you're using a um you know you're using um a dishwasher. It could be changing to the type of spray that you're using. It could be changed to different types of tea that you drink in the water. He said, there's so many impacts on the gut microbiome when we're playing with it and toying with it with these like different products, he goes, you could actually be doing a lot more damage than you actually physically realize.
Speaker 1:And that's the problem with, like, the daily use of probiotics. You know the idea of using a probiotic daily. If you stop increasing one particular strain, all those studies are done in two weeks or three weeks or four weeks. Now I'm not saying against anything against these companies, by the way, because the companies, these companies are in the industry, they're my colleagues, I've met them and they're really lovely people and their research is really really good. But the problem is there's no longitudinal evidence. That's the issue and that's why I always say I always get worried when you're, when there's no longitude and evidence and the products in the market and you're the guinea pig. That's where. That's where I get a bit yeah, one.
Speaker 2:One of the uh analogies that dr sam bailey has suggested is if you took a steak out of the fridge and left it on the side for days and after a few days you said, oh look, there's bacteria decomposing the meat. It wasn't the bacteria that killed the animal, right? And and also when you look at the studies done, because then people say, oh well, you know there was bacteria in the air, but again, the studies don't suggest that that's the case. Have you, have you heard of, um, spontaneous generation? No, sorry, with regards to to bacteria. Okay, so the the idea of spontaneous generation is there's a particular environment in the body which creates the bacteria, right? And then have you heard of pleomorphism? No, sorry, I'm gonna say no, okay. So again, I mean, I think you've kind of mentioned it, but maybe haven't put the term to what it is. So pleomorphism is when a bacteria will change to another bacteria based on the conditions in which it's facing, which you did mention, right, with h pylori. It changes, it changes state, right. And we know bacteria can go from being aerobic to anaerobic, as an example. But I think pleomorphism suggests that it can become a completely different, genetically completely different microbe.
Speaker 2:And I just find all this really, really interesting and I found that, yes, I've been studying this stuff a long time, but I think you'd agree, the more you know, you realize, the more you don't know. Right, and I'm starting to really question everything that I've learned in functional medicine. But you know the doctors that I mentioned. You know they've got some great information. I'm not saying they're definitely correct, but they make the most sense to me, for sure, but it just makes me think, wow, I've got some great information. I'm not saying they're definitely correct, but they make the most sense to me, for sure, but it just makes me think, wow, I've got a lot more to learn, you know I always say that if we are, if we're not, if we do, if we think that when, if we're not learning, then there's something wrong, we should.
Speaker 1:I take every, every day, like I take, my knowledge that I've learned and I say this is good knowledge. I had a really good friend of mine, um dr etienne calaboo. He was a cancer doctor. Um, he passed away, really really good friend of mine and um, well, like what I call him one of my like spiritual gurus, and etienne etienne said to me one day we were sitting down talking and he said to me and I remember sitting down, I was just having a bit of lunch, and he goes, he goes dilly, he goes. I have been to every weird and wonderful conference and I met weird and wonderful people. I've met professors, doctors, I've met shamans, every single person. And he said I will take every bit of information, I will take it in. And he goes. It may not apply to that situation, but I will never dismiss it. I will park it up in my brain somewhere. He goes because at some one day I will, that that something might click and something might change. And he goes because it's the same in the allopathic treatment. He goes because he was a cancer doctor and he goes.
Speaker 1:Cancer is constantly changing our understanding as we start breaking DNA and looking into it gets deeper. And he said he used to joke he was just like he's like I'm stupid. I'm stupid every day. I've gained stupid every day because research is growing, so I gain even stupider every day because research is growing, so I gain even stupider every day. And it was a really funny way of looking at it. But it's so true. Our. You know, I've been in the H Pylori for a long, long time and I've looked at it in so many different ways and my understanding is constantly changing and none of us are wrong. None of us are right, but we're just entitled. We're entitled to learn more and that's where it is.
Speaker 2:As long as we learn and we keep pushing ourselves to learn more, we can do the best that we can do for ourselves yeah, it's interesting when I, when I look back over the years, you know I've helped a lot of people, so I can't have been too far wrong.
Speaker 2:But what I feel, my feeling right now, is that you know again, going back however many years it was 18 years or so what I was doing to help people.
Speaker 2:Yes, it helped, but I think the mechanism of how it helped them was different to how I thought it was. So, whereas perhaps I was doing something that I might've considered to have been intelligent allopathy at the time may well have actually been changing the terrain, and that's how the result happened, rather than it was treating the invader, if you want to call it that, right. So I just think the mechanisms of how things work are probably not quite what we think, and I think a lot of the research that's been done into the microbiome, which is immense, and, yes, we've learned a lot but I just feel there's something that's still not quite understood, and I've talked to a lot of people that seem quite convinced they do know, and I kind of think I think there's more to it than people realize, but I don't know the answers. But I just feel that there's there's something missing in what we understand at the moment lee, do you know?
Speaker 1:you know what always, what always, I found so good about your um, your podcast and your show was the fact that you are happy to learn and that's it, and I think that is a testament to like the channel and testament to use, because you're not coming from a place of like I'm smarter than you.
Speaker 1:It's coming from a place that I want to learn, I need to learn, I need to understand this so I can give better treatments to the people and that's where.
Speaker 1:That's where, like you know, I said at the start the talk I'm not a clinician, I've never been, and I'm glad I'm not one because, like I and I and I I say that in a humorous way because I've seen the stipulations out of put on people and on their learning and you cannot question or say anything against, even in the natural health industry.
Speaker 1:You have to be careful what you say, because if you say something that that questions the narrative in any alternative way, you could be demonized and you could be canceled, and we can cancel people in this industry and I think that's the funny thing with this industry is that we have to learn ourselves and as long as we can continue to learn, but we can back it up as well. And don't get me wrong, sometimes I have my theories and I'm like, okay, I've got a theory here. I need to work this out, like I need to see if this is going to go somewhere. And sometimes I get these theories and I put them and I write, and I write my theories down and I say one day I'm going to see if this theory gets proved, proved right or proved wrong.
Speaker 2:And so far a lot of my theories have started to really transpire in really strange ways yeah, I think you know, if you can sit back and critically think about things and you got the time to think about it. You know what. Why not? Why would you not get it right? You know, I mean some people, a lot of people get it wrong, right, and and I, you know, again, as a clinician and obviously I I work in different areas as well it's really hard to keep up to date with everything that's going on, right. But I can imagine if you're not in the situation I'm in, if you're not a clinician, maybe you've got a bit more time to to look into things, right, um, so we've spoken a lot about hplori and acid reflux and we've kind of spoken about the kind of medical treatments and what the negative aspects might be. But I guess we've got to leave the audience with some hope here. What would be some recommendations that you would suggest for people with either H pylori or acid reflux?
Speaker 1:So we talked at the start about those two interesting you know one, the amine, histamine, and the second thing, ammonium. When I started working, the reason why my interest, shall we say, in H pylori came about was because of the fact of we were working witha product called toxoprevent, which is a binder, and it's the only you know. I'll start by saying this it's the only binder in the world that's classified as a medical device because of its proof of what it binds to and the proof that what it once it binds to a toxin, it actually leaves the body via the stool. And there was a really interesting one of the doctors in the team on the scientific advisory board, dr Marcus Danton. He hypothesized when he started looking at H pylori and he had the conversation with me with this one day and he was like H pylori has an ammonium shield. H pylori creates histamine, toxporent binds to histamine and it binds to ammonium. And then we started playing with a few different people. We started, you know, working with people who were, to you know, diagnosed with h pylori and it started coming out that there was evidence that people were starting to see a difference in the symptoms. And when we started seeing these different symptoms. We started realizing that we were onto something, because what we were doing is we were taking away the histamine and we were taking away that ammonium protective shield. When you remove the protective shield, you are allowing the stomach acid to naturally destroy it, and when you were reducing the histamine, you were bringing the immune system back into balance, but you also stop. You also like I'm going to use the word prevent because you know what we can we were preventing the spread of that inflammation in the rest of the intestines and as you started to reduce that histamine and ammonium, you start to see a difference, not only in the symptoms, but the actual strains of h pylori.
Speaker 1:The actual h pylori started to reduce and then out came another bacteria strain. So there was some research done in 2013 I think it was um, a company in germany. They were isolating strains of lactobacillus and they found a specific strain called dsm 17648 and they said this strain, even when it inactivated, when it went into the stomach, it created a covalent bond with the h pylori, so it emits a protein which attaches to the protein of h pylori and it literally pulls it out the stomach. And so what we started doing is we started messing with this protocol. We started building it and next thing you know, we found this five-day protocol which completely changed the way that the bacteria thrived, because it didn't destroy the bacteria itself. But what it did is it took away that protective shield. It took away the histamine, got rid of the symptoms and then the alreuteri DSM-167648 bound to the bacteria and removed it.
Speaker 1:And what you had is you weren't changing the gut microbiome, you weren't messing around with the, with the rest of the bacteria, you were just working on the toxins which cause inflammation and lead to the symptoms in the body. And it's the same with acid reflux. We were finding that when you were removing the ammonium and histamine because of ammonium being an alkalizer and histamine being an the overproduction of acid we were seeing that people who were taking toxoparent started seeing a complete balance of their stomach acid. And it's just phenomenal. It's it's. It's a different. It's a completely different approach, because we're not putting our blinkers on and saying I've got to kill the bacteria, I've got to kill the bacteria. We're looking outside of the box and it's that free thinking outside the box which is what the key is.
Speaker 2:So what you've basically done is you've changed the terrain. Correct, right, awesome, awesome, right, awesome, awesome, right. I think that's a really great way to end the show, but what's next for you, diddy?
Speaker 1:We are, we're just working. We are currently working on producing. We're working on, like, looking at basic minerals at the moment. So our big thing is looking at like what we do post healing and how to optimize the average joe and optimizing small bits. So we're looking at, like, how to look at potassium and electrolytes and looking at electrolytes imbalances and we're starting to map out why so many people are should we say the words dehydrated even when drinking a lot of water. So we're starting to do a lot of work into that and I think my our team is just going to keep working on banging this histamine drum. I think it's time to change, to take away this 236.9 billion anti-histamine market and start focusing on regulating the immune system the right way, using the right products.
Speaker 2:Yeah, excellent, that sounds great. And where can people find you online?
Speaker 1:What I'll do is the company's called nuva healthcare. That's our, that's our primary business, um I will send you the link so whoever can hopefully get the link in the description. The protocols are on there and you can find us on instagram, uh, on facebook and on youtube. We have our own independent channel where we talk all these different topics, like lee um called can I be candid show awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll make sure all those, all those links are in the show notes and do you provide like courses or books or anything?
Speaker 1:no, I just provided my we just um, we um with the youtube channel. For us is our place of like. I call it this our kind of like thinking space. It's where we kind of like have, we can talk however we want and we can discuss theories and kind of go for that, but we just provide information and let people make their judgment. I think most people who come to our channel yours are very intelligent people and they're here for knowledge and I think they're more than capable of making their own choices. So that's what we're here to do is just give them that information and let them make choices.
Speaker 1:Yeah and is it for the general public and practitioners as well, would probably benefit from your information yep, anyone, we're just, we're here for everyone, we're here to just uh, here just to well, should we say spread support and spread love, which is probably the best part of what we do, isn't it perfect?
Speaker 2:awesome, dilly. Thank you so much for coming on. I've really really enjoyed chatting with you and, uh, possibly I'll get you back on another time as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you, lee I really appreciate everything you're doing and, uh, honestly been so much for my friend and I look forward to coming in again.
Speaker 2:Awesome, great stuff. So that's all from Dilly and me for this week, but don't forget to join me same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel podcast. Thanks for tuning in, remember to give the show a rating and a review and I'll see you next time.
